Making a custom mold advise needed
I have half of this figured out. My idea is for a simple to produce mold for testing different shapes and weights of pellet. My tools are limited to mostly hand tools however a surprising lot can be accomplished given time, trial and error, and lots of stopping for measurements. I’m not making them by the hundred for target practice or anything. My plan is to trial and error my way through different concepts and hone craftsmanship in the process.
I can polish the sides of two pieces of aluminum bar stock to near mirror and grind the top flat so they match seamlessly. Instead of hinging the mold I will hold the two halves together with pins and clamps. I could drill it out easily enough and counter sinking it will make a simple conical skirt. I won’t attempt hollowing the skirt at first and could try gas checks or maybe paper patch. Where I am stuck is creating the head and gas checks. For the head of the pellet I have considered putting a metal sleeve down into the mold to protect it with the bit chucked into a Dremel suspended in a crummy drill press like device. Then rotate the entire mold along the bench as the burr head cuts and use the sleeve as a sort of fence to limit it’s cutting depth. Measure, adjust, replace with different size sleeve, repeat until desired result. A modified wire nail could be used similarly to cut gas checks into aluminum. I would be glad to hear any improvements to this.
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I made thousands upon thousands of those corbin bullets, hunted coyotes with them killed a lot of stuff, they were highly explosive. Unless you annealed them twice, then they fouled like hell and had to be moly coated, but after the moly treatment they would give deep penetration and very good weight retention after the double annealing. I still have cans of the stuff, really ugly looking bullets but ugly is as ugly does.
Riverside,
Do you think you could still eject them without a jacket, that was always where trouble started for me, getting them stuck in the point forming die.
I sold mine two years ago after using them for over twenty years. I even had the ejector linkage for both forming dies that set on top of the die itself. Dave Corbin always replaced for free anyting that broke, kind of like. Tagdagger and the Airarcher.
Roachcreek
myself I would be contacting Corbin
still have one of their sets from years ago that turned nice .22 projectiles for centerfire using lead wire and spent .22 LR hulls for the jackets
screwed right in my RCBS rockchucker press
Walt is usually riht(no jee, keyboard fucked)
You just oota squeeze it out of him with abuse…. 😆
Being right is only a concern to those who feel they need to keep score. The fact is on the Old Talon Owners Group Walt and his buddies use to pull this kind of shit on members all the time. And we shut that place down and everybody followed us here.
I am not having that bullshit here where people are afraid to ask a question because they will be laughed at. Oh we will laugh at you for many reasons but not for asking for help
😀
molds are nothing to be handicrafted with minimal tooling
I mean it can be done
for example I have built soapstone mold blocks for odd projectiles, {try finding a .27 round ball mold for a Pennsyvania half stock flinter from the 1830s}…found a few beads of the correct size, glued them on piano wire then used a grit slurry on my glass bead cherry powered via foredom
still buggered up several
if you want metal blocks, leave it to the pros
myself I would be contacting Corbin
still have one of their sets from years ago that turned nice .22 projectiles for centerfire using lead wire and spent .22 LR hulls for the jackets
screwed right in my RCBS rockchucker press
Walt is usually riht(no jee, keyboard fucked)
You just oota squeeze it out of him with abuse…. 😆
Hey guys, forgive my naivete on this subject, but I had a thought…
I have seen on shows like ‘How it’s made’ how bolts are made…by rolling a piece of steel between two plates that are cut to create the threads in the bolt…would something like that work in this situation? I was thinking that two plates could be made with grooves, and have a cylindrical piece of lead squished and rolled between them to produce a pellet…
I’m prolly WAY off here, but it was just a thought, and that is sometimes what helps other people. IF I am way off, sorry…
Walts right
myself I would be contacting Corbin
still have one of their sets from years ago that turned nice .22 projectiles for centerfire using lead wire and spent .22 LR hulls for the jackets
screwed right in my RCBS rockchucker press
Having made a “mold or two” in the lathe..split molds with the four jaw, push molds with the three jaw….I’m curious as to the “special purpose face plate” mentioned.
Have a pic or a more verbose description Walter? Would be interesting, and likely educational. 🙂
Thanks.
Making a mold for .22 slugs that works well is going to be challenging…be sure.
Don’t let anyone discourage you though…as mentioned, it would be an accomplishment in which you could…and should take no small amount of personal satisfaction.
If I were making such a mold in the lathe, I’d have the mold pieces for the “center(taper, waist, skirt outer)” section, made as “split” with the 4 jaw, and turn them to fit into a tube. “Nose” section could be made with the 3 jaw, and also turned to fit in tube. “Skirt” inner profile would be the last piece…made in the same way as the “nose” section.
In this way, the nose shape can be easily altered, and the skirt can be made thinner or thicker as to need.
Pick a spot in advance where you’re going to pour from…it’ll become important when trimming sprues consistantly without damaging the pellet.
I’ve no idea at present how to suggest you go about this without a lathe, but good luck. 🙂
http://talks.guns.ru/forummessage/30/546912-m13245713.html
This is a link off of the link that South put up for .22 swageing.
seems he has copied a basic 22 long rifle bullet, with pretty good results.
what do you guys think.??????
bananaman , this project your on is right up my alley , so i hope you do try and get it going. Do post updates and let us know what you are doing and the results for sure.
And i have spent twice the time making a tool or something ,rather than spend the money that i could have made (in a fraction of the time) at work. 😯 🙄 😉
So i know where you are coming from.
One example. My shot gun ,shot Maker
Also made that spoon i am holding in the first pic. 😆
Video
coolling system for shot maker,
automotive oil pump( old one from garage.)
automotive evaprator from air conditioner sysyem( frome garage)
exzaust fan from bathroom,( from job sight,oujt of trash pile, repaired)
You have to keep coolant at specific temp for best and roundest shot. 😀
banana,
there is so much error in your first post I have no idea where to begin.
As to trolling, your OP appears to be a half assed attempt at trolling and with a post count like yours I indeed dismissed you as such. My mistake, sorry.
I would not pursue a cherry and rather use a special purpose faceplate on a lathe and a boring bar. The basic shape would be made using a custom ground reamer and then if bands are desired a boring bar.
The cavity MUST be on the parting line or the bullets cannot be removed.
Swaging is the best approach for a .22 cal bullet and the dies can be made up to work in a reloading press. Slugs cut from lead wire or cast
Just a tip that will ease your way. Do not presume to know anything when asking for help from tradesman or anyone that may know more than you.
Graciously accept the advice, weigh it out in your own mind and if it passes the smell test then test the advice. Remember where the advice came from and give credit where credit due. Good or bad. Not all advice is good and it is up to you to figure that out.
Good luck
*big unrelated rant you can skip
Well that clears it up a bit. Voltar I’ll forgive your sarcasm if you forgive me dismissing you as just another troll because… well they’re just so common and who has time for their games.
I’m not pretending to know anything or make any claims, I know what I know and I wasn’t one of the lucky people born already competent in everything and I’m not afraid to make mistakes either. I’ll gladly trade a little metal and time for some fun and insight, especially if it ends up insipiring or aiding someone else to do better.
Buying a custom mold is probably what most of those “reasonable” people would do but that’s just not my usual style. Ever since my dad taught me to use the tools handed down to him by his grandfather
I have always known to make/repair things instead of buying them (no I’m not poor or a backwards hermet in the woods.)
besides, if everybody bought everything, what’s the point of forums like this eh?
*end unrelated rant
What justforfun and Walkonking suggested is a good technique with plastics, I’m making some chess pieces that way except using silicone instead of urethane. two part and lost wax are a couple favorites of mine but not really applicable to this.
A quick google search on cherry turned up a lot of info but I’ll have to get to that later tonight. I’ll have to pull up some equations if I can find it again to figure out what length/weight to try out assuming a velocity c950fps and the 1:16 twist of the stock .22 LW barrel. it was designed for bullets but to my knowledge it can apply. Math is my weak point so I tend to rely more on the reality than what theoretically it should be. If anybody knows this math offhand or the name I would appreciate it, otherwise later tonight I’ll just look it up.
that’s a cool link link Wok!
South , that’s incredible result from swaging.but the main page is 9mm it looks like , there is a link for 5.5mm and 5.6mm on that page at not quite as good results.
I have thought about that also for the .22’s , its a very intricate process to get the best results from swageing also. again i have the presses, and the led wire cutter, i would either need .22 lead wire or a mold to cast the .22 blanks to cut down or cut them to the pefect size.
I am interested in this stuff and will try and get to it , but there are so many other things that get in the way. 🙂
Hell i do good to get to the range to shoot my powder guns that are sitting in the safe, Thats why the air guns are so nice.
You guys!!! I swear. 🙂
I will get around to casting for my 22 condor, What i have learned from others about this project on here and other places is invaluable, i cast for most all calibers that i shoot rifle and pistol, so all i need is molds and sizing dies , but i am collecting as much info as possible before i get to it.
Casting for the .22 caliber , one of the hardest calibers to cast for, if not the hardest. The smaller the caliber the more imperfections show in your shooting results.
I have wanted to cast for .22 powder guns that i haven’t yet either, but with the condor i think that a 50 grain or so bullet would be about right.and i also know that the rifleing is not right for the heavier bullet weights, so differant barrel, differant rifling twist , and no choke more than likely for best performance with the 22 air rifles . The .25 seems quite a bit easier to get results with .
With your mission , any imperfection is going to show up as bad groups of course, the least bit out of round, if your lead is not just the right temp you will not have a filled out bullet , or pin holes or air bubbles in the bullets.
Then sizing, your pellets or bullets will have to be perfectly sized to your bore to get peak results.
Now if your can come up with a mold out of scratch, with your limited tools, that drops a bullet out at a size that you can get a group with, it would be a really cool accomplishment to be proud of.
Now i know why the guys were hammering Walter , but in his defense , he saw that you had already shot the Jsb’s so any pellet or bullet that you could come up with would in no way compete with the JSB . I think that is what he so gruffly was at his point with.
If you have a perfect professionally made mold and can size to the exact size that your rifle wants to shoot at peak accuracy,or drops a bullet or pellet to the best size for your rifles peak performance, then it will still be a huge accomplishment to learn how to melt , pour and cast your bullets to the peak performance.
So lets see what ya got. 😀
thanks PB
Try to read this: http://talks.guns.ru/forummessage/30/546912.html
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Wow, I’m surprised so many people responded. Perhaps I should have been more specific with the title and yes my OP is a bit long and dull so people may have skipped over parts but I’ve noticed a few things people keep going off topic. I appreciate the input but I think my point is misunderstood.
1. People keep suggesting I just buy a mold. Well yes if I really wanted good pellets I would but I doubt any home made pellet will ever surpass factory made. The point is I haven’t worked with metals in a while and have always been curious of making a mold or two. Maybe one will work out ok, maybe not.
2. Another thing I see is that people have an impression that it is not my place to try things unless I’m already good at it… Well I break caste boundaries a lot, sorry. Skills are acquired over a lifetime not granted from birth. Aside from xenophobia or trying to protect someone from perceived failure I don’t see the point chasing someone away from a hobby. That’s what invitation only forums are for.
3. You can’t make anything without the “proper” tools. The gunsmiths in the Khyber pass have tools older than they are and they make almost indistinguishable copies of numerous rifles and revolvers. A less extreme example, I’ve threaded parts to an air tool I was making using my Dremel and jewelers file, freehand and I’m not talented at it. You don’t actually need a lathe for that it’s just harder, tedious, and no longer economically viable for production purposes. Imagine what a machinist could still pull off with hand tools if time traveled to the 1800s or something. Just think about it, where did you guys start back? Probably using nails as a punch and grinding metal on the sidewalk for hours as a kid I’ll bet.
4. Swaging, yes swaging is what I would really rather do. Cast pellets have never been accurate for what I understand. I acknowledge I don’t have the tools to pull that off without it becoming a bastard of a chore which defeats the purpose.
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Wooow that was longer than I intended.
Pabolouk haha I know how you feel with that keyboard, don’t worry it’s more annoying on your end than ours.
Powderburner, it’s good to see someone is genuinely interested. I’ll be working mostly on design this week. Next week I have to travel for work but if I can squeeze it in I’ll work on making a cherry and yes I’ll make sure to take pics.
“Casting for the .22 caliber , one of the hardest calibers to cast for, if not the hardest. The smaller the caliber the more imperfections show in your shooting results. ” Indeed, I know in smaller non projectile molds I’ve made there were always lots of air bubbles. Better material selection, temperature control, etc. will come into play this time and it is one of the many landmines I’ll deal with when I get to them but you are right, a larger caliber would be easier. I have no need for the power of .25 so .22 it is.
50 grain sounds like even if it were straight walled it would be a long projectile to stabilize and with that weight I could expect a maximum velocity in the 700s. Most pellets don’t seem to really stabilize well until I pass 800-900fps. I was thinking of starting small around 25-30 and see what works from there.
I took a look at that site today linked by south_ That guy definitely is trying some interesting stuff. I suppose even scaling down a Minie bullet would be worth a shot. Anybody here by chance have a .22 Kentucky rifle? 😛
Any other input has been read even if I haven’t commented…
Oh and airgunner, there is a process similar to what you mentioned.
I’m sure you can google how steel bbs are made, they are rolled between two plates with a track in them (think giant vinyl record) which shapes and sizes them down until they reach the center.