Making the most accurate AirForce
Okay guys, let me draw upon some experience here of those who have tuned these guns. I’m considering building a Talon or Condor for Field Target and Silhouette shooting. I don’t need a ton of power, I just want good accuracy out to 60 yards and I need it to be under 20 FPE. I like the longer barrel for the extra weight, but the shorter barrel is better for a quick lock time. I could probably add weight via the accessory rails. I very adept in a machine shop, so I can probably build anything I need. So my question is this:
What modifications would you do to these guns “strictly for the sake of accuracy“?
Keep in mind power will be probably 15-16 FPE, and it could be in either caliber as 22 is better for silhouette and 177 better for FT.
Thanks,
Dan
accurategolf@yahoo.com
http://members.cox.net/accurategolf/shooting.html
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You can kill a elephant with a .22 but it’s not the best tool for the job!
Regards
Jaco.
Oh Iceman, you’re just not quite getting it here. No offense. Although you’re not the only one not getting it and I understand where it is coming from and why.
This is a project of perspective, not function, I just need a little bit of function to accomplish my goal.
This isn’t about winning FT or Silhouette matches, or shooting the best possible scores I can no matter what. If that’s what it was all about I wouldn’t even be considering this, I’d just buy a Steyr and be done with it. This is about having fun and playing with the equipment. The AirForce guns make for a great opportunity to do exactly that.
As for eliminating forces on the stock, most of the shots in FT are done sitting, and most of the pictures I’ve seen have the guys resting their guns on their knee with the majority of the weight right in front of the trigger guard, not much different than how you would rest a gun on a bench rest. Standing position will put the hand back by the trigger guard anyway and any stress will be on the trigger housing so silhouette and standing shots should not be a problem at all. I think I can utilize the trigger housing receiver to keep the stresses on the stock to a minimum in almost any position, and with some creative building I’ll bet I can even build a lower forearm that would eliminate it almost completely regardless.
As for the velocity, your experience is obviously different, but I’ve read a few posts where the guys are running JSB’s at 900-950 for best accuracy. Even with the heavy version that is about 18 FPE. That would be just about perfect, 18 FPE would work for me just fine.
It’s all a matter of perspective. When I was shooting highpower rifle competition I could be competitive with a service rifle AR-15, but I ended up building my 6 BR tube gun because I wanted a gun that would help me perform at the top of my ability. I won every Regional championship I ever entered with that rifle and I’m sure I wouldn’t have done that with the AR. But that doesn’t mean I didn’t have fun shooting the AR, or that I wasn’t competitive with the AR, because my scores were always up there on top of the leader board. In fact, I even shot my first perfect 10 shot offhand string with an AR-15, 5 pound trigger, slow lock time, and all.
Funny thing about the AR-15, for the first 35 years of its existance the highpower community shunned its existance, saying it couldn’t be made into a competitive rifle, interestingly enough for one of the very same reasons the AirForce is being quesitoned (barrel flex). Then somebody did a “what if”, and now it is the most used rifle on the firing line at an NRA highpower match.
I like to tinker, I like to have fun, I’m not really very competitive despite my success in many competitive sports. This project isn’t about trying to be the best, trying to fit in with the crowd, having the best equipment, or anything of that nature. It is about having fun and tackling a situation from a different path, that’s it.
If we were all conformists the world would see little change.
We are just looking at the situation from a different perspective, that’s all.
Thanks,
Dan
Most of the groups was shot using some kind of rest while keeping the “external forces” on the stock to a minimum. Best groups normally shown! Most of these gun also runs 30ft/lbs or more, so shot to shot consistency isn’t that much of a factor @ shorter ranges.
Now keeping in mind that you’ll have a hard time tuning it down to sub 20ft/lbs in .177 with any kind of consistency (My .177 would be very accurate @ ft ranges @ 24ft/lbs, but lowering the velocity opened up the groups and e.s) this would be a very steep hill to climb.
Shooting a gun in ft where you have one shot / target while the gun is not allowed to touch the ground or rest on anything except the shooter, is a whole different scenario. This is where the ergonomics’s, trigger and consistency comes into play!
Get an S400, with adjustable cheek piece, hamster, extra fac cylinder, big scope and be done with it. That way you can concentrate on you shooting and not waste time on making a gun into something it wasn’t designed to be.
You can kill a elephant with a .22 but it’s not the best tool for the job!
Regards
Jaco.
😀 I like your train of thought 8)
Okay, so tell me what you did to the barrel? Those are good groups so I’m all ears.
I’ve been shooting competition for 30 years, I’ve made my own guns from scratch (see link below and click on the 6 BR), I made High Master with a 5 pound trigger in an AR service rifle, and I’ve been shooting tube guns with high sights. So far nobody has said anything that has scared me about putting together one of these rifles for competion. I’m certain it can be done and I’m positive I can shoot it well. I just want to know how to make the darn things shoot good, I can take care of the rest. THere must be some accuracy nuts out there who can tell me what they’ve done that works, and what doesn’t.
I know there are better platforms for a FT or Silhouette rifle, but they all cost 5 times the money too. It would be fun to build one of these for less than half the price then go out and beat all those guys that paid a premium for their guns.
http://members.cox.net/accurategolf/shooting.html
Thanks for the pic Knifemaker, there is the evidence I need. Now, where are the rest of the guys here that know how to make a gun shoot straight?
But It can be done! I’ve got mine shooting 3/8″ to 1/2″ at 60 yards in calm air. This is when the paralex between eye and scope is perfect. I have a Zeiss with side focus ordered. Should take out the slight variable.
Seemed that lapping my barrel did more than anything else to get the group sizes down. No fix for the high mounting location of the scope relative to the bore though. It has to be the Achilles heel to our guns!
Mike<a href="
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Your going to have to isolate the pressure on the tank and get a stock that doesn’t put any leverage on the front of the rifle as well…
I noticed a dramatic increase in accuracy and consistency when I wasn’t putting any force on the tank, right now I am working on getting the relationship of my trigger finger to the trigger correct. The stock grip puts my hand too close to the trigger and I have to twist my palm to fire…
I think there is tons of room for improvement built into these rifles, the weak link being the tank collar where it meets the frame…
Keep us posted!!!
Even finely tuned AF triggers are far away from being FT triggers. Like I said, there are some other issues…just my .02
Dan…..i would suggest you choose another platform. Tried mine @ ft (easy course) and thought it was ok till i’ve tried my shooting partner’s mpr. Nothing like a gun with a regular wooden stock, raised cheek piece, hamster, good trigger & big scope for shooting those tiny reduced target @ 40+ m.
Nothing wrong with my Talon and wouldn’t trade it for anything, but it is what it is!
IMHO there’s “better” tools out there for ft.
Regards
Jaco.
I’ve seen some very impressive groups from some of the tuned ones, and some not so tuned. Keep in mind an AA400 isn’t regulated either and I believe one placed third at worlds a year or two ago. A regulator would be nice, but it isn’t the end all, be all, in accuracy.
Dan
These guns are not exactly FT guns, they have no regulators + have some other issues. Doesn’t mean they are all inaccurate, but… a full tune is a must if you do chose to go that route.
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We need a picture of D Days Talon/FT gun.
Someone here bought it awhile ago. It had a knee riser and was all set up for FT.
I think it would help this discussion.