My highest 25 LBT FPE so far or so I thought
These energies are in the 134 to 179 FPE range if my chrony is correct.
I was filling to very high PSI levels, I dropped down to 3200 PSI and got the lower group by filling between shots.
I seems the higher the velocity the tighter they group. Also bear in mind that these groups were shot with a 2×7 Burris that is Parallaxed at 100 yards.
This is with the barrel I prepped yesterday with my hillbilly lathe and Airarcher valve parts, hammer and hammer spring and Tagdaggers rear bushing which replaces the power wheel and rear bushing.
They are also noticably higher, 110 FPS, than what the barrel was giving with the added one inch of choke. I suspected that swaging bullets with air was a velocity theif.
Regards,
Roachcreek 😳 😳
All Replies
I do believe that little brass chunk will do that for ya, and it’s made for your lbt lead… so p/m me your address before I have to track it down other ways…. 😯
this thing is coming your way weather you like it or not! 😆
GTBJ,
I tried stuffing some in yesterday further than the barrel ending. It is porbably 1/4 inch, at least slightly less than the JSB KIng I was using to push it in. But anything that gets them to the rifling and does it consistanly will work.
Thanks,
RC
had me a bit of time this morning wile i’m waiting on ups to bring me some stock and this is what I came up with… send me your address and I’ll ship it up to ya so you can see if it’ll work with those kings
RR,
There were times that I did not have as much faith in the project as you. 😆
I would get sterling groups one day and the next they looked like a shotgun pattern, it was all about that choke, and the information you posted about cutting yours off was one of the keys to success.
I hesitated for a long time about cutting the barrel off, but when I got the used barrel from Tagdagger it seemed like only a $75.00 gamble, and that was the true turning point to success.
Right now I am loving these two guns, even with all the AF quirks thrown in.
Especially the detuned Talon, I mean it is only a 70 yard gun at best as far as useful trajectory, but it is somewhere between the 400 and shortened 500 in the Neighborhood F catagory, but it is slightly more powerful than a 25 acp with a much better designed bullet. Not to mention being light and short.
And I am tickled with the power and the accuracy that the rifle is showing, with the Leupold/Holland scope it should take air guns a step further IMO.
RC
Agreed on both counts.
I limit my casting to jigheads for fishing, and I would almost rather buy the damn things instead of pour them.
I haven’t the patience for making bullets, and I’m quite satisfied with not shooting past 100 yards with my air rifles so skirted pellets suit me just fine.
I can shoot Jerrys 6 rings “minute of lights-out” for the intended game out to 60 yards with my sig pic rifle, and it is set up for those ATM. I drive em at 850 fps from a 17″ barrel using an old style condor valve. It gives me 15 shots I can stack with a 2400psi fill. I kind of lucked out discovering that combo. The bottle came with my used condor, and thats what it had in it when I started testing LOL.
I am quite impressed with your endeavors RC, but not really surprised with your results. You seem to have the procedures down pat.
Its always a good read, and I look forward to your progress notes.
Jerry,
No I took no offence. But one thing I would have to disagree with.
I love the independence of making my own bullets, and I have cast now for 40 years with a few years off. 3 years ago I decided to live in asia, I sold 32 bullet molds along with a lifetime of collected reloading tools.
I have cast every week for several hours for at least 34 of those 40 years.
And my disagreement is that casting is not fun, perhaps it is for some, but the actual act of casting holds no mystery for me at this point in my life. it is simply painful for me. My wife just got done doing a 2nd massage on my back, and we will go thru it again tomorrow.
I do it because of days like today at the range and watching those little slugs arc their way to my metal target, chip some paint and bounce off.
Timmy earns every penny he makes.
Roachcreek
Roach,
I admire your independance and truely appreciate all the nice things you’ve said about the slugs etc. No hard feelings were intended here at all.
I just went through the run down of costs for the benefit of folks that had not yet established a casting operation and of course for the selfish observation that those folks might be better served by buying from Timmy than producing bullets for their one gun!
Better served as in a pure economic/practical sense, that is. For satisfaction and doing the complete hobby or independant shooter drill, nothing beats casting your own!
Jerry,
I had all the casting stuff before I started the 25 LBT project. I bought it when I got the the Ranger 45.
I had already cast enough 45 caliber bullets with it to pay for the pot, ladle and Lee hand press and theomometer, which yes is a must in my opinion.
I actually bought 4 25 caliber molds, first one was destroyed in alteration and I was reimbursed, 2nd one I returned because it was not the size advertised. I will sell the one mold I have that did not work on EBAY and get all but 20 to 30 out of it.
After that I will have less than 2 bills not counting the lead.
I have had perhaps 5 or 6 bottom pour furnaces over the years including the RCBS. I was advised years ago while casting the big Sharps bullets that a propane fired stove and a cast iron pot that held 20 lbs of lead and a ladle produced the best bullets, I believe that is true from my experience, but I opted for the 20 lb electric one and a ladle just because it was easier to put together and store away.
So yeah I have paid for it several times over.
THe limiting factor for me tho is arthritis in my back, I can cast for an hour a day and then I need a good rubdown from the wife with Ibuprofin creme, so yes it is good to know that eventually I can send you my molds.
And if you note, I always tell folks buying your slugs is a far easier route to go.
I am just an independant old cuss. I used to have a 500 grain slug I called my solar bullet sitting between a set of spike elk horns.
I shot that spike with a 45/70 with that very bullet, I cast that bullet from melted down tire weights I got from Les Swab tire stores and used electricty from my solar panels to power my Lee bottom pour pot to cast it. I drug him down to the house I had built and I cut him up and I ground and wrapped him and cooked him myself like I did all the others before him and after him.
Like I said I am independant.
Regards,
Roachcreek
Roach,
I think you may well be saving money by casting your own but I don’t think you’ve paid three times over just yet.
Lee Melt pot (ladle type at midway) 32.99
Cheapest lead dipper at Midway 4.79
Lee custom sizer (current price, I thought I got mine cheaper) 32.00
Lee hand press or bench press (splitting the difference) 29.00
LBT 2 cavity mold (best guess from website) 125.00
RCBS handles for LBT mold 42.79
25 pounds of 40 to 1 alloy (from rotometals) 60.25
Optional but recommended
Thermometer 37.86
Grand total for basic casting set-up 326.82 + (shipping depends..)
add the thermometer… 364.68 + (shipping depends..)
Now, bottom pour pots (even the cheap Lee versions cost more (64.99)) as do better dipping spouts or going with pure lead and minimal tin (60.25 + 17.99 for a pound of tin) If you’re going to cast 10s of thousands of slugs, you’ll want an RCBS pot at 379.99…
Now, if you’d bought 3000 6 rings (or 7s or 9s) at once, you’d have paid $465 including shipping. Had you decided to try a couple sizes and then ordered 3-500 at a time, you’d have paid maybe $550. If you bought them 100 at a time at the most painful rate of shipping costs, you’d have paid $750.
Obviously, casting your own is chaeper than buying, especially if all goes well and you’re making a bullet based on learning someone else’s lessons and you have minimal set-up costs. But what if your first custom sizing die isn’t right? Toss in another $32 bucks according to Leee’s current website price. What if the awesome mold drops great looking bullets but they just won’t fly? Toss in another $125 (probably a minimum for a custom design). Do you have a place to cast? Need a dedicated table/bench? Want to save some money using roofing lead…better get a fan to blow away the fumes of all the crap getting burned off! Got gloves, a place to drop the slugs, time to do the casting, cleaning, sizing etc?
The nice thing about being set up for casting is that adding a new slug comes down to the cost of the new mold and sizing die. Molds are fairly expensive (especially the custom jobs) but the sizing die might be cheap if it’s a standard size. But, the initial set-up isn’t cheap and gets more expensive fast as convenience factors are added in. Want a bottom pour pot? Add $! Want a bottom pour mold that lasts for years instead of months? Add a LOT of $. Want a proper ladle? Add $. Want to try a different size? Add $.
Anyhow, even if you got a lot of stuff on sale, I don’t think you’ve got to where you’ve saved 2/3 of what you would have paid for our slugs. Toss in factors like you could have got 61+ gr, 72gr or 88gr slugs at the same price in 3 sizes or un-sized and it isn’t close.
You’re going to have to cast another several thousand bullets to hit that three to one ratio I expect!
Anyone who shoots less will have to go years longer to break even.
That said, casting can be fun in small doses and spending the money to try new things and see if they work can bring satisfaction beyond economic considerations. This is the hobby taken to another level and folks should try it if inclined, just don’t think there’s an early payoff, it’s more like an electric car for most people.
One of our best customers has an ideal set-up for casting. He did that and decided to send us all his molds and buy rather than spend the available shootiung time casting and servicing all the gear required for the job…that’s another consideration…
It is about 3×8’s inch to the full lands.
RC
I think he was meaning that you could use the kings in the same gun with the lead in, but use a ‘ram-rod’ of sorts to get the kings (pellets) far enough into the barrel to engage the grooves…
yepers… that’s what I meant, something on the priceable of the beeman pellet seat, but more so a flat dowel with a 1/4 inch (or however long you need it to be) nicely rounded nipple on it so you could squarely push the pellet into the lans… I have a picture of what it would look like in my mind, but I am far from an artist so I couldn’t put it on paper to show you what I’m thinking…. if I get some free time maybe I’ll turn one out of brass for you, how deep in the breach ’till you have full lans?
Does reading comprehension accompany altimers? 😳
So yes GTBJ I suppose you could do that, I not tired it yet tho.
RC
RC,
I think he was meaning that you could use the kings in the same gun with the lead in, but use a ‘ram-rod’ of sorts to get the kings (pellets) far enough into the barrel to engage the grooves…
Great minds think alike. 😛
If you exert enough pressure to do that, you deform the lead bullets base with the force applied. It is just too difficult and work intensive.
It takes a lot of force to seat them that far in, I tried many different materials from a metal ruler off a small carpenters square, to wood and leather and plastic.
Bottom line is you need a lead cut in.
I once had the breech slam shut on my thumb nail with a heavy hammer and hammer spring. The top hat cut thru my thumb nail and I lost the nail a few days later.
The pain was excutiating, I had to drill the nail to relieve the pressure to get to sleep the first night.
My neighbors were blinded for two miles around me from the flashing red light of my asshole puckering in and out. 😯
So I gladly put a lead in these days.
Regards,
Roachcreek
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
Thanks a lot GTBJ, I appreciate it.
RC