Need analysis of Top Hat adjustments, please
Date 10/16/2009 Temperature 40 degree F
Condor .22 cal. 24” Air – start 2800 psi, ending 1750 psi
Eun Jin 28.4 gr rated, Actual average 29.0 grain
38 short, all recorded
Shot #…………..fps Top Hat
01……………….961.9…………….0.070”
02……………….907.6…………….0.070”
03……………….891.0…………….0.070”
04……………….838.4…………….0.077”
05……………….938.6…………….0.077”
06……………….946.4…………….0.077”
07……………….918.6…………….0.080”
08…………….1,216……………….0.080”
09……………….969.2…………….0.080”
10……………….979.9…………….0.080”
11……………….938.2…………….0.081”
12……………….966.0…………….0.081”
13……………….963.1…………….0.081”
14……………….973.9…………….0.081”
15……………….956.8…………….0.082”
16……………….974.6…………….0.082”
17……………….999.2…………….0.082”
18……………….973.7…………….0.082”
19……………….970.2…………….0.084”
20……………….974.6…………….0.084”
21……………….967.2…………….0.084”
22……………….963.8…………….0.086”
23……………….955.8…………….0.086”
24……………….964.8…………….0.086”
25…………….1,099……………….0.088”
26…………….1,101……………….0.088”
27…………….1,116……………….0.088”
28…………….1,068……………….0.088”
29……………….913.6…………….0.089”
30……………….912.0…………….0.089”
31……………….929.3…………….0.089”
32……………….921.4…………….0.089”
33……………….904.7…………….0.087”
34……………….902.2…………….0.087”
35……………….909.0…………….0.087”
36……………….865.5…………….0.088”
37……………….850.0…………….0.088”
38……………….816.5…………….0.088”
Well, I left it a 0.088” but I’m not sure why that didn’t show better than the 0.087” setting?
What do I do now? Should I repeat the Top Hat adjustments with a consistent 0.002” change? Or, can I go on to a refill and look for a bell curve?
All Replies
The 1st time I read that I would swear it said he would “I aim a little higher.” But, obviously it says he is a little higher.
Who’d a thunk?
Well I went to the range today with good intentions. Only this time I waited to pump up the ammo bottle.
I swear, I’ve made a lot of mistakes since I started this thread. I counted on getting good fps readings without the diffusers because the chrono seemed to be giving good numbers and today I counted on my replacement AF pump to get me back up to speed…….It just wasn’t working right so I cleaned the fittings and re lubed them with divers silicone. That didn’t help either. And, the pump was making a new noise like a high pitch whistle at the end very easy down strokes. This time AirForce is having the pump picked up and sending a replacement ASAP.
So, I wasted the fuel going to the range with an air bottle in need of a good pump. And, that ends this thread for a while. I’ll have to be content playing with some small pellets powered by a CO2 bottle.
So what, 40 shots then you smoke a joint and shoot 20 more?
Sounds like a good plan maw.
I’ve been racking my brain trying to figure out a good starting spot. Now that I’ve at least familiarized myself with the TH adjustment and am no doubt saving a little air pumping, I think I need to find a good setting on the PW so I can have both up and down adjustment after further turning the TH down. 0.80″ sounds like a good spot to be while finding a moderate PW setting.
I can see that even after reducing the TH from 0.93 to 0.84 the fps increases steadily as the psi drops. I ran 30 shots today from 2,700 psi down to 1,900 and the speed went from 758 up to the 930’s. I was right on at 14 Yds. and 4 mil dots high at 50 yards. You may here a loud EeeeHaa the next time I try the 100 yard range.
80 GRIT was correct in diagnosing my high chrono speeds. If I get any more fantastically high readings with heavy pellets I’ll know to check my chrono setup.
That’s why we need to communicate with you experts.
Thanks, but I’m no expert. I’m learning about these pcp’s just like you. I’m just a few steps up the ladder 😀
I’m sure nobody was “misled” by your false crony readings. Good luck with your tuning!
I’d put it .080 and work the power wheel to see how that works for awhile, finding the spot you like your gun to shoot can be a on going thing for quite awhile.
Thanks 80 Grit,
That’s why we need to communicate with you experts. Just so much to learn in a short time!
I had problems with the chrony not working even with diffusers on heavy cloudy days and was happy to see it working without them. Thanks to your comments I went back to the manual and found that the chrony can also give high readings. Here is what it says:
H) False reading (usually high); can result from very strong light, or by operation near electric motors, radar, powerlines, electric fences, static electricity, radio transmitters, etc. It may also be caused by the Chrony being too close to the gun’s muzzle. Remedy: try using diffuser, moving away from electrical interference, moving unit farther from the muzzle, or all of these.
I) Very high velocity readings: 1) can result from muzzle blast; move Chrony farther from muzzle; 2) Chrony is not fully open; check for interference from tripod or base.
So, it looks like just because the chrony gives readings it doesn’t mean they are good. The sky wasn’t real bright because sunset was approaching so I skipped mounting the diffusers. Wrong thing to do! And, I did have the Chrony a foot away from the muzzle, as usual, but had gotten to confident and was shooting a bit lower, closer to the Chrony. So, maybe there was to much muzzle blast causing the extremely high readings.
One thing that added to my confusion was that the sound of the Condor was a noticeable louder crack when the readings indicated super sonic. Especially with the shots that I labeled as Chrony HICCUPs.
Sorry if the data presented has corrupted anyone Else’s learning. Maybe it will keep others from being as impatient as me and making the same mistakes.
Your ej’s aren’t going supersonic, your crony is not functioning correctly. Most likely a lighting issue. You will have to start from scratch again. I know, crony testing is very cumbersome. I am no pro, but I think you need to leave your Top Hat and power wheel on one setting, then shoot at least 20 shots before you mess with it again. Don’t adjust either after only two shots. Good luck!
Sorry, I just read that you “already discovered you should shoot more shots before adjusting….” But the crony is surely out of whack!
Ah, Monday and I made it to the range. I just can’t keep myself from trying to shortcut this procedure but I am beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I did settle down and do some good strings before my chrono lost it’s mind about 6: 50 PM. Coincidentally the sun set at 6: 48 PM. The chrono went spastic continuously printing “#2l 0000.00.”
After several attempts to reset it I realized there probably wasn’t enough light and packed up.
Anyway, her are the strings beginning and ending psi, TH adjustment, shot #s and fps. NOTE some of the readings are like 2Xs what they should be and this is exactly what printed out.
POWER WHEEL SETTINGs:
Why AF doesn’t adjust the number tape to read “0” at the left most setting is beyond me.
For Power Wheel readings I started with it turned all the way down to the left where the wheel on my Condor reads “10”. I turned the wheel one full revolution to “10” again and count this as PW=1 and again one full revolution to “10” gives me PW=2, etc, etc.
Fill to 2800 psi TH 0.80″
PW=2 (two full revolutions from the left)
#1……….803.25
#2……….841.09
PW=4
#22……0000.00 Error
#22……0000.00 Error
PW=3
#3……..1214.01
#4……..1051.05
#5……..1017.31
PW=2
#6……..1162.26
#7……..1157.70
PW=1
#8……..1079.35
#9……..1012.96
#10……1104.77
PW=0
#11…….856.62
#12…….967.54
#13…….992.45
Total Shots 15 including 2 that produced Errors
Ending about 2475 psi
Fill to 2800 psi TH 0.82″
PW=0
#1……….703.85
#2……….691.67
#3……….728.77
#4……….730.84
#5……….770.08
#6……….740.09
#7……….779.70
#8……….769.84
#9……….779.45
#10……..829.90
Total Shots 10
Ending about 2650 psi
At least I left the PW alone for 10 shots.
Fill to 2800 psi TH 0.83″
PW=0
#1……..3874.83 (I’ve got the tape so you tell me what?)
#2……….800.48
#3……..3833.11 (again, another chrono hiccup?)
#4……….834.02
#5……….802.23
#6……….826.22
#7……..1076.47
#8……..1176.04
#9……..1106.38
#10……..873.50
Total shots 10
Ending about 2425 psi
Fill to 2800 psi TH 0.84″
PW=0
#1……….748.74
#2……….765.99
#3……….805.38
#4……….874.76
#5……….853.24
#6……….862.60
#7……..1427.64
#8……….910.90
#9……..1499.44
#10……1257.66
#11……1670.57
#12……1573.71
#13……1584.00
#14……1627.88
Total shots 14
Ending about 2100 psi
*Fill to 2700 psi TH 0.84
I since a patter above so I left the TH at 0.84″ and filled to only 2700 psi instead of 2800 to see what would happen.
PW=0
#1……….989.45
#2……..1017.31
#3……..1038.34
#4……..1687.10
#5……..1582.97
#6……..1658.21
#7……..1792.79
#8……..2515.58 (HICCUP?)
#9……….978.41
#10……1021.68
#11……..855.05
#22…….Error (Chrono went spastic when the sun set)
#22…….Error
#22…….Error
#22…….Error
Total shots 15
Ending about 2000 psi
PS, I took shot 15 of this string at a piece of orange clay disc laying on the backstop at about 53 yards. I gave it a close hair cut hitting within 1/2 inch above it.
From the above I think that my Condor likes to start going “BANG” at about 2600 psi with Power Wheel =0 and the Top Hat at 0.84″. But, I don’t think I’ve found the real sweet spot. Since I had to turn down the PW to =0 and even lowered the fill to 2700 with my 28.4 grain Eun Jin’s still going super sonic.
So far I have learned that I should take at least 10 shots at any one set of adjustments and better to shoot 15 or so.
What I need to know is should I go for lower psi and lower Top Hat adjustments?
Where would you start the next adjustment sequence? And, what can I expect to achieve given the performance my Condor is giving me now?
Thanks for all suggestions. I appreciate everyone’s input.
Thanks Glob,
My af pump doesn’t have a moisture filter but I’ll take your advice and not use the pump outdoors at the range. I pull up right behind the shooting lines with my little RV so I can go inside to warm up and pump up the psi.
My guess is that .086 to .088 will be your best setting (please let us know).
Depending on the pellets you will use, you will have to start with a different fill pressure and adjust the top hat slightly (+/- .002) to obtain the pellet speed you want.
Make sure you can use your pump is a “clean” spot if you bring it to the range. Sand and mineral dust are the pump worst enemy. They can very easily damage seals or scratch the pump piston.
Also, in high humidity, you will introduce quite a bit of water in your tank (unless you have a dry air kit installed on your pump).
X2- Fill the bottle, set the tophat then shoot 20. Then refill the bottle, re-set the top hat, shoot 20. Then refill the bottle, reset the top hat, shoot 20….etc
Well, now I have to take the pump to the range. OK, this pumping thing has already got me off the blood pressure medication. Like Dad always said “the golden years are here at last, now I can’t see and I can’t pee, the golder years can kiss my a__”. Only Dad said it better some how.
Let’s see, 10 shots uses up about 250 psi and 15 pumps = about 100 psi so 10 shots then 40+ or – pumps…..I can handle that. But those powder burners at the range will be looking for my bicycle when they see me loading my ammunition bottle. They like the looks of my Condor but no one else has brought out their BB guns, yet.
As for me, once the gun is at the approximate velocity I want I put away the chrono and shoot for groups.
I count the number of shots and see when the POI changes. Then lets say I know I have 40 consistent POI shots. Then for the next 20 or so I AM A LITTLE HIGHER.
Then I go refill 😀
OK. I just switched to the Eun Jin pellets because I’ll use them for a while to see how accurate I can get with them. The first few shots probably cleaned out anything left behind from other pellets although it only had 50 or so since I polished the barrel a bit with Flitz. I only had one pellet that seemed tighter and I seated all with the ball end of a Beeman Pellet Tool and with a light coat of FP10.
I’m using a scale I bought for gold nuggets that doesn’t have grain readout so I have to convert from grams. Having to use a “gram” scale I rarely would see a 0.1 gram difference on individual pellets. I counted out 50, weighted them, converted from gram to grain and divided by 50. That repeatedly gave an average of 29 grain for this tin of 28.4 grain rated Eun Jins.
Is it time to get a different scale?
X2- Fill the bottle, set the tophat then shoot 20. Then refill the bottle, re-set the top hat, shoot 20. Then refill the bottle, reset the top hat, shoot 20….etc
That makes sense to me. I’ll take the pump to the range in a couple days and give it another try.
Thanks,
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To bad, that sucks, like right now, I have my tank down, and I like power so much.