Need knowledge;Building the Cheytac m200 Intervention airgun
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Hi alll, new member.
I’ve been stalking these forums for some time now but have never posted before. Been looking mainly at the talon/condor mods and how you guys do valve , trigger, spring and hammer upgrades. I myself do not yet own a condor or a talon but am planning to purchase one soon to learn its inner workings.
After familiarising myself with the condor, I plan on milling a replica of the cheytac m200 intervention using the CNC machine we just purchased. Its a tomarch 770. but rather than get it to shoot the 408 cheytac bullet I want it to function as a big bore condor shooting the .308 pellets. I plan on making an oversized bolt action and intergrating a small airtank capable of filling up to 300bar pressure (0.3 inch walls anodised aluminium) as well as the valve into the bolt itself. Of course it would make the bolt look tad oversized but I only plan on making the diameter as large as the Walther 1250 dominator airtank.
I got the idea from the socomgear cheytac m200 airsoft rifle which stores its gas also in the bolt, but of course the one I plan to build will be compressed air and will hopefully shoot a 115 grain pellet over 850fps in the first couple of shots,
Here is a video of how I envision the gun to work (but in airgun form rather than airsoft)
yes, I also plan to have it magazine bolt action where the spent cartridges (where I put the pellets and in which the valve stem will insert itself in snugly when the bolt is pushed forward- the cartridge will make contact with the barrel and when shot, air will push the pellet out of the dummy cartridge and into the barrell and out) will also be automatically ejected when pulling the bolt backwards. I will post up preliminary blueprints of my ideas and how this is going to work, because I’ll admit that it does sound quite unrealistic the way I’ve just tried to explain it.
I only plan for it to shoot at least 7 pellets at full speed, then refill. Or make an adapter which will allow me to connect another tank externally to the bolt/tank/valve
Could I please have some opinions on the idea of an intergrated tank/valve. It is intergrated because I plan on making it as airtight as possible because I may end up wanting to experiment with helium.
What weight hammer, spring and valve design would be reccomended for a 300 bar pressure, or will I have to start from scratch. Hungry for knowledge and a detailed explanation on how the entire valve mechanism works because I’m still a n00b. for that matter, how the entire condor works. I’ve got a general idea which will be consolidated when I take apart the condor, but I wanna hear from the more experienced modders who have basically pioneered this whole thing.
As you could probably tell, cost is not a factor although I would like to keep it under a 3-4 grand total budget. I will not object to anyone telling me that i’m a fool, it’s impossible or that its just plain stupid. [/img]
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Viewing 12 replies - 1 through 12 (of 12 total)
buba b, that design looks soo much like a barett gun- the muzzle brake especially
Why not just use giant TACs? It would be far simpler. You could even use the breach and mag off a real rifle if you did not want to make your own. Then shape your own barrel blank and make your own TACs 🙂
Thanks for all this advice guys, this forum is real friendly. Yes, I kinda bit the idea off of the airsoft gun, except I’m gonna connect the bolt/tank to another external tank which has a higher volume and sits just inside the butt-stock when extended- then I can just refill the bolt when required and remove the bottle when not in use. I’m gonna have the valve stem smooth and actually go into the dummy cartridge, such that it forms somewhat of a seal though using a simple silicon O-ring attached to the base of the valve stem itself). The dummy cartridge is going to have the same internal diameter of the barrel and will be pushed by the bolt right up to it (barrel will be protected by a rubber o-ring to form a seal as well as to prevent barrel damage). Hammer will strike the valve to release the air, the chamber in which the cartridge and pellet resides will be inside the reciever and when pull bolt back, cartridge ejects. Only problem is figuring out how to get the valve stem out of the dummy cartridge.
I dug my sniper style gun out just for an idea ,its just a mock up of a potential design , one i didnt bother with as i couldnt get the larger air cylinder and it would look all too real for our Fuzz to put a red dot attached to a MP5 on me !. You say your going to try and put the air in the bolt like the airsoft gun !. I think this will make it very tricky to build and you may well be lucky to get 7 good power shots building it that way ? , but im not one to ask about volumes of air per shot 😕 , so i may be wrong.
I got this idea from the Russian forums ( before they come and slag me off LoL , forgot who did it ) . The air cylinder has the barrel running through the middle , it then bleeds air into the breach block.
On mine the air then gose into a regulator then an area that contains enough air for one shot ( once ive worked the volume out ).
If your still going with the fake cartridge you could use this way to get the air to a Steyr airgun type transfer port . Getting the air to pass the magazine would still be fun .
http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17050
You would get a sealing surface and still have a nomal size bolt that could eject a fake cartridge with the bolt handle rotating to lock the bolt shut.
There problem solved 😀 now youve just got to design and make it ! 😯
Just throwing ideas out there 😀
Good luck
L8r 😀
The tomarch was advertised to mill Ti, but which grade? Titanium Gr2 is not that strong and considered close to 6061_T6 Aluminum.
Grade 5 on the other hand has a yield of 800MPa which is stronger than 15-5 SS.
Making a cylinder tube from Ti. Grade 5 would be a great choose since its lighter than steel yet the same strength, of course it depends on the wall thickness (use that link i gave you).
I couldn’t find 6061T6 tubes here & went with 6063 which is a lot weaker and only 4mm wall thickness & yet it passed Hydro test up to 5500PSI.
You don’t need Helium to launch even 300 grains up to 900FPS, air will do. I don’t know much about barrels but i will still advise you to buy instead of making your own, as that really plays a huge role in accuracy etc..
But then again, perhaps any decent 3 axis mill would be adequate to make something like this, the only reason we got the tomarch over the syil was that we were too lazy to do too much extensive research and the tomarch was advertised to be able to mill titanium. The Tomarch we have is a 4 axis.
What would anyone say to using 7075 aluminium for the reciever, the buttstock and the handle, anodised black? What are the benefits over 6061 aluminium?
Would anyone object to using grade 5 titanium alloy from… here
http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=6781&step=4&showunits=inches&id=180&top_cat=0
for the valve and the tank/bolt? I know titanium isnt used for barrels due to their rigidity but would this also apply to the valve?
What is the difference between blued steel and stainless steel barrels? Which should I pick for my project if I want to launch 140grain pellets or heavier 300m and still hit something sizeable? I’m thinking of doing helium mods for one of the bolts/tank/valves that I’m making so that it holds 4500 psi helium- hence being able to launch heavy pellets 900fps or more. The tank/bolt/valve will be interchangable so that I am able to change to another one if I want to shoot smaller calibers subsonic.
Price.
Nah, the tomarch has a larger working space and is definitely a cut above the syil, which is more of a hobby cnc mill- tolerqnces, accuracy as well as some features come to mind.- packaged software for example I would imagine would be better. However saying that, when we tried out the tomarch 1100, it was again better but the price was too prohibitive.
Thanks for the barrel info, will look into it
You can definatly ask LW to make a barrel for you, you have to figure out the twist rate lenth etc…
My advice is to use any barrel you have & once your there then maybe you can see your options, you need to check out Buba B’s work, great stuff & you will learn a thing or two for sure, the Russian forum is a great place too & i have been reading (translated which sux) and have hundereds of pictures etc..
Quick question, how does that Tomarch 770 compares to Syil X4 ? any advice ?
Hmmm very intresting idea , like to see how it would work. Making sure it seals well enough would be a task in its self with the higher pressures but not impossiable. Been working on a similar design for a long gun / sniper style rifle like the Cheytac , just to do some 3D machining out of a solid block of alloy but no where as complex as yours would be.
Im watching for sure
L8r 😀
thanks for support man
heres a review of the socomgear intervention. That shell ejection system is just jizzworthy.
hopefully i can find a way to make the thing airtight cos i wanna launch that pellet really hard.
Yeah I think I’ll have to get it regulated as well just to get more shots out of that small tank/bolt. unregulated just to show off how well it can punch holes through thick plywood. Yipee. Will post blueprints of the basic mechanics when I get around to drawing them with adobe illustrator. Will also autocad after when I play around with a condor to see the finer details
Oh and where would i be able to get a 30 inch 308 airgun barrel? Could I just use any ordinary gun barrel or does it have to be specifically designed for airguns?. If the latter, could I comission Lothar Walther to build me a 30 incher? Otherwise Is it hard to machine a barrel? What heat treatment/cryotreatment would it need and what materials and tools would be needed?
You are a fool 😛 so go ahead & build that thing, I’m providing my support from now.
I am mostly a computer geek, have built the many Machines, cooled with LN, water, etc…
Now after buying my first PCP rifles, i got into that & i am already making my parts & some mods here and there, nothing too complicated, i myself am learning slowly.
I also made my first Air tank for the HW100, & the first one failed the hydro test but the 2nd one passed 5500PSI.
I am going to provide a link that will help you to decide what material & wall thickness is needed to make the tube. Use Yeild not Ultimate strength.
http://www.engineersedge.com/calculators/pipe_bust_calc.htm
This should give you an indication at least & get you started, my advice it to go with Titanium Grade 5 for the tube it has a yield strength of 100KSI. That way you can keep the thickness at a minimum.
After trying different rifles, I’m starting to lean towards a regulated gun, unfortunately that’s one thing i still can’t figure out just yet.
Please keep us posted & good luck :thumb:
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All i can say is amazing