Neil Clague LDC = BAD Experience
This happened a while back, but I never had a chance to share the bad experience. My Dad had me contact Neil to order a LDC for his 25 Cricket. I emailed him regarding it, sent him the dimensions from the gun he requested, and shortly after that Paypaled him the payment to get it scheduled to be built. He told me via email that the wait time was “about 4 weeks”. After waiting 4 weeks I had not heard anything from him so I emailed him to see if there were any updates.
My email: “I was just wondering if you could update me on the status of this order and how soon you think it will ship out.”
Neil’s response: “I do not answer questions on progress and when I expect them to be made. I give customers an approximate wait time when they place their order, it is on schedule, Neil.”
Next fast forward to after the LDC was received. The LDC was made with an aluminum piece on the end of the LDC that slid onto the barrel and then we tighten with a set screw to hold the LDC in place. When the LDC was installed it fit very tightly, when my Dad attempted to remove it the aluminum piece broke loose from the carbon fiber shroud and the set screw ripped through the carbon fiber on the shroud. The aluminum piece was stuck on the barrel and had to be cut off in order to be removed. Once the shroud came apart we noticed the low quality workmanship inside and the holes in the shroud were not drilled straight.
This was my email to Neil: “Over the weekend my dad was removing the shroud from his gun and one of the aluminum pieces stuck on the barrel and the set screw cracked through the carbon fiber. Also, we were disappointed to see the holes inside the shroud were not drilled uniformly. We would either like to have the main shroud rebuilt or a refund. Please let me what you would like to do.”
Neil’s response: “send it back to me so I can fix it, I do not have a cnc machine and have to drill everything by hand, it does not matter where the holes are drilled, they are behind the muzzle and only vent air to the back of the shroud, they have nothing to do with the performance or accuracy of the gun. I will reimburse you the cost of shipping the shroud back to me so I can fix it. It looks like I need to groove the end pieces so they have a better grip on the carbon fiber, I will modify the end cap and make sure it is firmly in place, Neil.”
We mailed the LDC back to Niel and this was his email response after he got it: “the shroud arrived today and I was surprised to see you had vandalized the end cap, what purpose was there in doing that? In future any deliberate damage done to parts will incur a charge, please do not do it. When I say a part will be replaced it will be replaced and damaging a component to make sure it is not used again is petty and something that I do not appreciate. The repaired shroud will be sent out tomorrow, Neil.”
Obviously there was no intentional damage done to the the LDC. If it had been made correctly to begin with we would have never had any issues.
I sent Neil one final email expressing my disappointment with him and his product and this was his response:
“I am sorry but I have very little faith in what you say to me, if the part was a tight fit you could have quite easily removed a little material with a file or sand paper or even returned it to me to have a little extra material removed. . Without having the actual gun there is never any guarantee of a perfect fit and your attitude about the hole spacing is nothing less than anal. The holes are just to vent the air to the rear of the shroud and do not effect the performance in any way and are hidden 8 inches inside the shroud. I do not believe the shroud was cracked I believe that was an intentional act because you wanted me to make a complete new shroud because of the hole spacing. Not once did you mention to me that the shroud was split or that it was a tight fit, all you seemed to care about was the hole spacing, that seemed more important to you than the end cap coming lose! Please do not contact me again, the shroud has been repaired for you and I have nothing more to say to you, Neil.”
Here is a picture of Neils embarrassing holes inside the LDC.
Here is a picture of where the aluminum piece from inside the LDC was made too small and got stuck on the barrel. Notice how it also rubbed the finish off of the barrel because it was made too small.
And this is where the set screw ripped through the carbon fiber shroud.
Neil did repair the LDC, sent it back, and covered the shipping. The repaired LDC fit correctly but it still had the crooked drilled holes in the middle piece inside the shroud. I did not like the horrible attitude he had in all of his emails when it was his fault for making a poor quality product to begin with. I would not recommend for anyone to do business with him.
All Replies
Ain’t it the Truth!!! 😉
Neil, perhaps a simple copied note to the effect as to NOT force the LDC on, and please use LUBE!!!
(Your Wife Will Appreciate it!). :rofl:
Knife
Knife
No lubricant should be needed for the installation of this item.
Some people just do not have any common sense to realize that they do not have any common sense…
Knifemaker that is one of my failings, I always believe that someone who orders something like this for their gun has some kind of knowledge and common sense, I would no expect anyone to assemble an aluminum shroud without using some kind of lubricant and if it is tight do NOT use force, which is what happened here. I hate to have to try and educate every customer, some of them I know will be offended if I try and tell them to lubricate these before assembling them. Do I notify everyone and risk ticking some people off or hope that they have enough common sense to do what is needed and not use force. It seems whichever you do you risk upsetting someone. But the biggest thing is, if you do not understand something then ask, if it is tight, ask the maker before using force, it is easier to fix something that is too tight than to try and fix it after you have forced it onto a barrel and can not get it off again. So please guys, if you have any doubts or questions about fit, always ask first, Neil.
My poor uneducated in mechanics and metallurgy, Fellow Forum member. When dealing with alu. Especially two pieces put together it is necessary to use a type of lube called anti seize.
There is a thing called electrolysis that acts between the two pieces in such close proximity And this action tends to cause what we call galling. Left attached long enough, the two pieces can become virtually permanently bonded.
If the two pieces are two types of alu. this is very possible. If two dissimilar metals, this can happen much faster. And is exactly why we use Anti Seize, or NOLOX on such things as spark plugs that go into race heads. Other wise, they will easily strip out.
Yes, Neil should have told you this, but it is common knowledge.
The only time that lube is not necessarily needed between two different types, is when your Girlfriend or Wife is really-“Really” glad to see you! 😉 If she’s not so excited, your gonna need LUBE!!! :rofl:
Your willing to educate;
KnifeMaker
Knife
No lubricant should be needed for the installation of this item.
Lubrication, and a touch of common sense will fix both problems!
Knife
Neil,
If you made the product to the correctly and it fit correctly, then you would have never heard from me again about this order. You can’t blame this as my problem, you made didn’t make it the correct size. Ever put a ring on your finger where it slides on easily but you can’t get it off easily? That is the same thing that happened.
Thank you Donny, you’re the man, and I hope we can do business in the future as well
You’re a one time exception Cricket 🙂 I’ve worked with Neil a few times when I first got my R3M. We had good communication back and worth and he answered my questions. He has years of experience and his work shows. I talk to him once in a while through PM and he is always eager to help out. That’s what I love about this sport. So many people willing to type out all their datas or how-to’s and share with the community.
Neil does not ship to my country, but Donny does 😉
I have dealt with Neil on several occasions and have NEVER been anything but 100â„… satisfied !! We are blessed in this sport to have Neil and Donny to do the truly skilled work they both turn out !
And while neither of them would post anything about it as it would seem self serving ….. Neil gave my nephew a LDC for his first AirRifle and flatly refused payment , he is a very generous man with both his time an his craft and it’s not the first time Neil has done something so selfless and he does it without any fanfare .
Donny made me a one-off type muzzle cover for a project gun I was working on a while back when I know full well he was focusing on his new tooling that had just arrived and had bigger fish to fry . But took the time to make my silly item when he could have been better served to make money Instead of being just a good guy .
Guys like these deserve at the very LEAST the opportunity to make any perceived problem right before blasting them on a public forum .
Sorry to hear About your issues. To start, he definitely lacks some customer skills then quality issues. Unfortunately not the first time I have heard this.
Hammer you need to have dealt with me personally before you make comments like this. I take care of all of my customers and have very few issues with quality, quality is only an issue when I get some customer who does not like being talked to honestly. The customer in this case lied to me about what had happened, the holes are a none issue, they are 8 inches inside the shroud and only happened because I tried to add extra holes to make it vent better, usually I use half the number of holes which is easier to do when you drill in a circle. I have made literally thousands of shrouds and LDC’s and see very very few complaints, on forums or to me personally, If a customer has a problem I fix it, even if it means making a complete new item, so please refrain from making negative comments about a maker you have not had any dealings with, thank you, Neil.
I remember this experience very well, the customer who had me build this wrote me and told me the shroud had come apart, when I received the shroud and looked at his pictures it did not at first make an sense why it would just come apart. When I first inspected the parts I thought the customer had just cut the spacer in half to make sure I could not use it, I also found the end of the tube to be split by the set screw, I felt that due to his demanding a new shroud he had done this to ensure he received a new shroud and not his original back. But when I questioned him he told me he had to cut it off the barrel to remove it. So now things were starting to make sense, if it was that tight then it must have been forced onto the barrel, this was what directed me back to the pictures he sent me and when blown up the marks were very clear on his barrel where he had screwed it onto the barrel. Being forced on the barrel also explained the split by the set screw, he had obviously tried to use the same force to remove it. Customers should NEVER use force to put anything on a gun, if it requires force something is wrong. He then went on to tell me that the venting holes in the spacer 8 inches inside the shroud were not perfectly symmetrical, are you kidding me! I do not have a cnc machine and have to drill everything by eye and this is 8 inches inside the shroud, never seen and just vents the air to the rear of the shroud, well he demanded I make him a brand new shroud. I told him I was not to make him a complete new shroud because he had not been honest with me and because of his attitude and abusive way he spoke to me about the holes in his venting spacer. Had this customer acted decently and been honest with me I would have made him a new shroud, but when customers lie to me and try and get a new shroud for their mistakes they will get little help from me. If he had said I am sorry I screwed up, it was tight and I worked it onto the barrel and then could not get it off, he would have got a new shroud for his honesty. Instead he lied about it and made it all my fault. Anyone who works or messes with any kind of mechanical item should know better than to use force to make something fit, if you don’t then at least be honest about it. Anyone who deals with me knows I bend over backwards to make things right for my customers, but please be honest with me and do not try and put the blame on me for your mistakes. I will take care of you even then if you are at least honest, that is all I ask, Neil.
Just to put something like this into perspective, if this individual had purchased a car part and then totally mangled it up trying to fit it to his car, how many auto shops do you think would fix it for him for nothing, or give him a refund? People need to start using their heads and stop using brute force and then getting upset with the maker. If it was too tight and he did not have the skills to adjust it I would have done it for him for no charge, it would have required he send me the gun as the shroud was made to his measurements. But I would have fixed the problem rather than have him totally gouge up his barrel split the tube and wreck the end cap. It only takes a little common sense to get something put right, not brute force and ignorance, that is never a good solution.
Neil Clague has built five LDC’s for me in the past and all of his products have been made to a standard that equals factory made. When I did have a problem with one he courteously and promptly fixed the issue at no additional charge to me. There are variations in manufactured PCP’s and LDC’s have to be made to exacting specifications or they will clip. Neil’s work is top notch and he is as courteous to his customers as they are to him.
Sometimes it takes a little common sense to make minor adjustments. This thread proves that you can’t please everybody. For the amount of work he does this incident is the exception and not the rule. Complainers are more likely to post than satisfied customers. Do not let this thread keep anyone from considering Neil. He is a craftsman and a nice guy. This customer was taken care of yet he is complaining and attempting to damage Neil’s reputation. Don’t buy it.
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Knifemaker these things are simple common sense, if anyone does not know these things they really should not own an air gun or fire arm. I was taught these things when I was about 6 or 7, I just can not treat every customer like they are an idiot, I have to assume that they own an air gun so they must have some common sense. I have included some simple instructions before and got some very snide replies, like don’t treat me like an idiot, so I figure it best to treat my customers like they are sensible, smart people, Neil.