New Mutant and member!!
Ive been following this forum for info on the Mutant and i am now the proud new owner of the standard.!! Just recently purchased from Tony at Talon Tunes, it was love at first sight. Cant say enough about Tony’s great customer service, especially after tryng to wade through my options with other not so friendly airgun stores in the past, that is when you actually get a human on the other end.!
My experience with pcp guns is fairly limited coming from a good shooting mrod that ive grown to love over the last year. Centerfire has been my thing for past 15yrs or so but airgunning has won my heart. The mrod as i said, is great , but its a beast and Im a six foot rail so field work was bitch for me. Prone i could smack 2″ spinners at 100yrds all day.. But offhand i struggled. In comes the bullpup and considering my favorite gun in centerfire is my FN ps90 this was a no brainer. I was torn between the wildcat and anything else, but research on the fx gun turned up time again , issues i wasnt keen on dealing with. So it quickly became clear after more research and specifically talking with Tony that the Mutant was my gal..
My first impression out of the box was wow !!! Nice looking stock , which was a concern , gun itself was more compact then i imagined which for me is a good thing, almost as small as my ps90 and it shoulders almost exactly the same aswell. The machining surpasses anything ive ever seen on any gun period. And my friends own 10,000 match rifles. The seems are seemless and the action is smooth except for a concerning rough spot at the very back of cocking.
There are a couple things i wish were different but not deal breakers. The gun is a little on the heavy side, i was hoping to drop a lb or two coming from the Mrod but doesnt feel like it. Having said that the weight of the gun dissapears once you grab the pistol grip, its perfectly balanced even scoped. I can hold the gun one handed outstrectched like a pistol and its manageable..
Second thing i would wish for would be some stipling on the grip front and back.
The thin sides of the stock are a bit concerning aswell , considering carbon wrap to reinforce area running along airtube.
Third thing is the sound , while there are almost no perceivable mechanical sounds compared to mrod, im surprised by the sound of air exiting muzzle its not much or ar all quieter than mrod muzzle blast. I was expecting mouse fart quiet.
Not a complaint about the trigger because i can tell its quality, but mine came set with almost no first stage and a hair trigger which makes for scary situations.. i was hoping some one could direct me to video or pics on how to adjust trigger.
Pics of my pups
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When this is done the HS will be “tuned” to the regulator setting. Now if the FPS at this setting is not what you want then you would have to increase or decrease the regulator setting to get it where you want it.
This is the best explanation I read…. Thanks for making it clear BigTinBoat.
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:hoot:
Depends whether you got a Shorty or a Standard. Shorty shot count is in the upper twenties…depending on how high the regulator was set at the factory. They seem to range from 135 to 145 bar…the higher the bar the higher the fps and the lower the shot count.
The Standards will easily get well into the 30’s for shot count…even more if your reg was set low at the factory.
Dman says he can get 36 shots at 850 fps from his Shorty…color me doubtful about that, however he has modded/tuned his gun quite a bit, so those numbers are possible, but that’s squeezing the absolute maximum out of that little barrel.
My personal opinion is 21gr pellets need to go at least 750 to 850 fps for maximum performance. That’s why I believe you can simply change to the 21gr pellets and get your fps right where you want it with only minor HST adjustments. Tinboat gave a good way to slowly adjust/tune your HST to get maximum performance out of your current reg setting.
Hoot:
“So do i need to adjust more than (adjust) the dial at the back of the block to lower power?”
If you really want to slow down the feet per second (FPS), you need to back the regulator down to a lower setting.
Hoot:
That’s not always a given, unless you know how the gun is tuned now.
Here is what I suggest you do as a “noob”.
1) Chrony the gun
2) Back off the HS 1/2 turn and chrony the gun
3) Back off the HS another 1/2 turn and chrony the gun
4) Back off the HS another 1/2 turn and chrony the gun
Keep doing this till you get a reading that is at least 50-75FPS lower then you started.
Then look at your results and see where the “knee” is.
I honestly think you will see at least a 1/2 to a full turn before your velocity starts to drop.
What ‘I would do is back off the HS 3 or 4 turns and chrony the gun. I would then keep increasing the HS 1/2 turn at a time and chrony the gun. Once the FPS no longer increases (with increased HS) I would then back off the HS to the prior setting and then take 1/4 turn more off.
When this is done the HS will be “tuned” to the regulator setting. Now if the FPS at this setting is not what you want then you would have to increase or decrease the regulator setting to get it where you want it.
Im definetely not breaking into a working , new gun. I do have chrony and i did a quick zero over it, but i could only get a 200 bar fill from my tank because its regulated. With the jsb 18.1 they were zinging at 920 plus. Shot count was low due to half fill,but also it sounds like im losing air behind shot, like a blast sound. Would hst be appropriate adjustment for excess air , even without decreasing fps necessarily?
I bought a crappy benji pump from cabelas today because im impatient and dont want to wait for necessary parts for my tank b4 i can go shoot with full fill . Ill probably re-zero with the HN 21gr and see if it helps with sound b4 touching hst.. what should i expect for out of the box shot count, ballpark?
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:hoot:
“So do i need to adjust more than (adjust) the dial at the back of the block to lower power?”
That Hammer Spring Tension adjustment (HST)at the back of the gun is primarily for “tuning” your gun to get max performance with the ammo and regulator setting you are using. While the HST can lower your feet per second, that is not it’s intended use.
If you really want to slow down the feet per second (FPS), you need to back the regulator down to a lower setting. Mine came set at 145 bar from the factory. Some of the guys are dropping down to 135 bar to increase shot count. That takes some experience and mechanical aptitude, so be careful if you want to try this. The videos at the top of this section will show you all that is involved in getting to the regulator. I don’t recommend you do this. Better to first try using heavier pellets.
By using the 21gr pellets (my favorites) you will automatically lower your pellet speed by a substantial amount, because the same amount of air pressure is now pushing a heavier bullet. Try that first, then you can use the HST adjustment to maximize the shot count and power per shot for your gun as it came from the factory. That’s the safest route to try first.
If you don’t have one, you really need a chrony to fine tune the HST setting.
Keep asking question…that’s how you learn quickly and save yourself a world of grief!!!
Hoot:
Thanks for the feedback, everyone!! Ineed to get my air supply sorted b4 reporting any shot counts, my carbon tank is regulated to 2900psi output so i can only take it to 200bar. I thought i might try the 21gr pellets b4 for tuning down , thinking that would use some of that wasted air. It does seem a little less efficient at that velocity. Also it might be off regulator some shots because it will jump from a consistent 920s to 940. It was originally tested atsea level by Tony A hitting in low 910 high 918, but im at 5000ft plus so getting more bang for the blow..
So do i need to adjust more than the dial at the back of the block to lower power?
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Mine too was “fairly quiet” at 920, but I could clearly hear “wasted” air, turning it back and completely different sound.
Mine was shooting 930/925 and seemed fairly quiet. Way to hot for the little space in my back yard. I turned mine down to 750 that was much quieter. Matter fact more so then my shorty at 750.
M mutant was around 920fps with the 18.1 when I got it. Testing the efficiency I thought it should be better. I turned my HS back till I was right on 896-900FPS and it is much more efficient and quieter also. I think your “extra” noise could be wasted air.
Much thanks Hoot! Thats what i was thinking on power and noise. Mrod pushing 21gr at factory setting was only about 780fps and 29fpe, the 18gr out of the Mutant 920fps… May tune it down abit if i stick with 18gr. But i do love the HN they are wicked accurate out to 80yrds compared to everything else i put thru the mrod.
El Mutant got her first bandit last night, only a 12yrd tree shot , but holy holdover batman, dropped him good.. thanks chairgun!! And yeah the skull smack was all you could hear in sleepy valley… i know my wallet can do without an Ldc for now, and i guess i could probably too..
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:hoot:
“…while there are almost no perceivable mechanical sounds compared to mrod, im surprised by the sound of air exiting muzzle its not much or ar all quieter than mrod muzzle blast. I was expecting mouse fart quiet.
Not a complaint about the trigger because i can tell its quality, but mine came set with almost no first stage and a hair trigger which makes for scary situations.”
:hoot:
Dear Muttmo,
The physics involved with a pcp gives you two choices on noise, high power = high noise, low power = low noise. No pcp maker…to my knowledge, makes a pcp air gun with high power and a shroud design/size sufficient to silence the muzzle blast. There are none on the market to my knowledge.
If you want to have both power and silence, then you will need an aftermarket LDC to bring the muzzle report down to zero…or close to it. See Neil Clague or Donnie Du for details and associated costs. PM the Dman, or email John Hagan (Hagantool@aol.com) to get the shroud to LDC adapters.
The trigger adjustment is fairly simple, but you need to watch Ernest Rowe’s video a couple of times and realize the adjustments you make to the screws are very small, and if you adjust one, you WILL need to adjust the others. It’s a balance that is delicate and the right settings take time, many trigger pulls, and patience. Hint: cock the gun and hold the lever back when you pull the trigger…you won’t loose air with each trigger pull and it will take several trigger pulls to get it where you like it. Patience…you will get it right but it takes several minutes. Take care where the muzzle is pointed when you are doing this.
Someone mentioned using the 21 gr pellets. I believe this is possible with the Standard, but the Shorty most likely won’t be able to get them up to their full potential…likely fps will be in the 700+ fps range.
Hoot:
:hoot:
“…while there are almost no perceivable mechanical sounds compared to mrod, im surprised by the sound of air exiting muzzle its not much or ar all quieter than mrod muzzle blast. I was expecting mouse fart quiet.
Not a complaint about the trigger because i can tell its quality, but mine came set with almost no first stage and a hair trigger which makes for scary situations.”
:hoot:
Dear Muttmo,
The physics involved with a pcp gives you two choices on noise, high power = high noise, low power = low noise. No pcp maker…to my knowledge, makes a pcp air gun with high power and a shroud design/size sufficient to silence the muzzle blast. There are none on the market to my knowledge.
If you want to have both power and silence, then you will need an aftermarket LDC to bring the muzzle report down to zero…or close to it. See Neil Clague or Donnie Du for details and associated costs. PM the Dman, or email John Hagan (Hagantool@aol.com) to get the shroud to LDC adapters.
The trigger adjustment is fairly simple, but you need to watch Ernest Rowe’s video a couple of times and realize the adjustments you make to the screws are very small, and if you adjust one, you WILL need to adjust the others. It’s a balance that is delicate and the right settings take time, many trigger pulls, and patience. Hint: cock the gun and hold the lever back when you pull the trigger…you won’t loose air with each trigger pull and it will take several trigger pulls to get it where you like it. Patience…you will get it right but it takes several minutes. Take care where the muzzle is pointed when you are doing this.
Someone mentioned using the 21 gr pellets. I believe this is possible with the Standard, but the Shorty most likely won’t be able to get them up to their full potential…likely fps will be in the 700+ fps range.
Hoot:
I wondered if maybe i was missing an oring or something which might cause it to have more of a report? I accidentally fired it without the lever closed all theway and got a face full of air, thought maybe blew the breech oring but chrony says otherwise,and there is friction when closing bolt, have not inspected it yet.
Could just be the increased velocity of the mutant over the mrod making it sound louder. But in videos ive seen the mutant definitely sounds less blasty than mine..
On a side note has anyone tried HN barracuda 21gr . Those are the preffered pellet of my mrod and i like using them for the big city raccoons we have here. They penertrate good and seem to be harder lead than jsb.
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The stock is solid … we’re planning on using your mutant as a battle axe??
Mainly im refering to the very top of stock at air tube its only about an 1/8 in thick, just concerned it will get aesthetic damage more than anything.. but over happy with it..
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I agree great advice from everyone, keep it coming. its helping me understand the tuning process for sure. however there is literally a skunk and raccoon epidemic on my small urban farm this year AND THIS HARD HITTING MUTANT is just the medicine. We’ve lost 15 chickens in last week, and one night the skunks and raccoons had teamed up side by side to raid the pen. Haven’ t had a chance or need to switch to the 21gr yet. the 18.1 have been surprisingly devastating. Also I would like to add that this guns accuracy instills a confidence in the ability to get humane kills , that i can really take comfort in. its such a thrill to watch my pellets, when Im punching paper, fly perfectly straight, as opposed to the not so uncommon spiral path my marauder often takes.
thanks again
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