New vs old
Hi all, I’m new to the forum, in fact I only brought my gun today. This place looks to be a wealth of information though so I’m happy I’ve found you and eager to get modding.
Today when I bought my talon ss I noticed it wasn’t quite what I expected, I later discovered I’d been sold the old version with spin on tank, old style safety and no pressure gauge.
Should I return the gun and ask they supply the current version? What are the pros and cons of the old vs new?
I’m guessing I may have already answered some of that!
I’m particularly interested in producing more power from the gun, are either of the models better suited for power mods?
Any hints or tips on getting the most from this gun would be much appreciated too. I’ll use the full length of the frame and fit it with an 18″ barrel, it would be great to know what to do with the valve and hammer to get a good amount of energy from the gun, 40-45 fpe would be fantastic
All Replies
Thanks Casey. For anyone interested in this thread I can clarify that both valve bodies, Talon and Condor, are identical, I confirmed it with Airforce earlier.
You would simply need to swap the stem/top hat, stem guide, valve seal, spring and spring retainer to go to a high flow valve.
I remember that the Condor valve has an o-ring in the stem portion of the valve body if I’m not mistaken, and the Talon valve body does not have the o-ring groove. Beyond that, you would have to ask Air Force, tony, R&L, or Dayotat I’m sure one of them can give you the correct answer. I personally did pen up, port, and mod one of my Talon valves, and it does quite well. I also have a Talon Tunes prepped Talon valve, which in my personal opinion is very well balanced, and consistent. My DIY modded Talon valve may be a bit hotter, but the TT valve is smooth as silk, and very predictable. I also have one of the R&L valves (gift) and it will make big power, but you do need to tune it to keep the air waste down. Just my 2cents.
Casey
Call air force, see what they say
Yup, I know, I can get an extreme flow valve for just a little more than that too but where’s the fun? Not only that, I think modifying the talon valve would be way cheaper if the valve body is the same.
I took my valve out today for a look, there are only 5 components in the valve to change, the valve seat, spring seat, spring, top hat and delrin, that’s presuming the spring seat and spring is different.
What we reeeeaaaaally need to know is whether the standard flow and high flow valve bodies are the same.
Not likely .
Haven’t heard of anyone replacing internals of the talon valve like that . With Condor parts
You do know you can just buy the valve right. It’s like 120 , from airforce .
You can catch a used condor bottle for what a new valve cost some times.
Thanks powderburner, the question I’m struggling with most is the valve, can my talon valve body accept the condor internals? I can’t seem to find the answer anywhere. It certainly looks like it might, if that’s the case I’d need both brass inserts, the top hat, delrin and spring to convert mine to a high flow, it shouldn’t cost much at all.
Does anyone know if I can do this? If not what are the differences in valve body?
the condor ss has a longer frame . than the talon ss
1st condor ss
2nd condor
3rd talon ss
the talon valve is like 850 fps with 14 grain pellets stock, i believe you can polish and drill out the talon valve and get that velocity up to 900 fps
http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=29114
22 or 25 personal preference
the two valves are different , condor valve has much bigger internals.
heres an article that shows a better pic of valves
http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/airforce-airguns-talon-ss-and-condor-for-fun-shooting/
Thanks powderburner, I guess what I’d like to do is turn my talon ss into a condor ss. I know the condor ss has an 18″ barrel and in 22 cal it produces around 56fpe, it’s my hope to get that kind of performance.
I’ll order the 18″ 22 barrel from airforce so no problem there.
I’ll get a new hammer spring from Tony and add weight to my hammer so no problems there either?
I would like to avoid getting a new valve if possible though, it seems I should be able to rework my valve for better flow right?
Does anyone know whether the condors high flow internals would fit into the talon valve body?
I’m also struggling to decide on whether to go 22 or 25 cal, decisions decisions!
Here is the power level of your ss
.http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2012/04/airforce-talon-ss-precharged-pneumatic-air-rifle-part-2/
If this is the power level your after its a great gun .
Of coarse you can turn the talon ss into a Condor with longer barrel ,Condor Valve. AND added hammer weight
The Condor high flow valve has a bigger air way ,flow more air
Condor power level
http://www.pyramydair.com/article/The_Condor_April_2004/14
You can turn down the Condor easier than turning up the talon ss
All personal preference, do you want a shorter compact rifle,lower power level
or longer rifle with better air efficient use and more power
Thing is with the air force you can have all of that ,by changing it around
Thanks for the pointers guys, much appreciated. I guess I’ll keep the old design gun if there really isn’t much between the two. I figured the gauge on the newer models might be useful but I can deal with not having that.
I’ve taken a look at TT, that might be useful later. Right now I’m looking to “up” the power, I saw a good review of the Condor SS on pyramid air, that thing was running at 60+ fpe it .22, the Condor SS has an 18″ barrel, so, what’s stopping me putting an 18″ barrel in my Talon SS and getting those results? Valve and hammer right? Anyone know what the difference is in valve, I hear the Condor SS is running a direct flow valve, is that right? Any one have the schematics so I can see what that is?
Check out the Pandemic Video on here, they explain and show how to install most of the TalonTunes parts
:tag: Lee1,
I agree that the TAlon Tunes Tank Adapter will solve several of your needs BUT ALSO, the Talon Tunes Quick Change Top Hat will greatly reduce problems inherent to the OEM valve Besides, the Quick Change Top Hat is a quick and easy install.
Talon Tunes also offers a good Valve Removal too that will be needed to unscrew the valve body from the tank so you can screw on the TTTA and then the valve body on the end of the TTTA.
Some of us had trouble keeping these abreviations straight at first so don’t believe everything I have posted 😳
PS the older models safety was a problem thus the change. Many have removed it on the older model so we don’t falsely trust it. Always keep any gun pointed in a safe direction. I don’t have the newer model but understand it has a problem of it’s safety would not allow the rifle to be Un-Cocked.
Overall, if you enjoy working on mechanical things the AF rifles are fun to modify. That is why I have two.
Thanks for your response Wildfire, I’ll check out Talon tunes and see what parts I can use for my build. I’ve already taken the gun apart to assess it and identified a few things I want to tackle, the only part that concerns me is the valve, my lathe is $#!Â¥
Hi Lee!
Welcome to the forum. T.T. Stands for Talon Tunes. You mentioned that your gun has a “screw in” tank. The TT tank adapter fits between the main frame of the rifle and the tank. It has a fill port ( male foster fitting) to fill the tank and it also has a pressure gauge built into it. It you have the old style “screw on tank”, you need to unscrew it from the gun and use an adapter to either fill the tank with a pump or a SCUBA tank.
Another really nice thing about the Talon Tunes tank adapter is that it drops the tank down lower on the gun for a better cheek position for shooting.
Talon Tunes is a fantastic company to work with. It’s owned by Tony, who also owns this forum. His products are “top notch” as is his service and pricing.
The rifle you have is a fantastic starting point for a custom build or it could be left as is. Air Force guns are very easy to work on if you have even the slightest mechanical ability.
You should spend some time surfing around this forum and you will find a ton of very informative threads and posts.
There are many many very knowledgeable members here that can help you out with just about any question you may have.
Wildfire :5:
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You would simply need to swap the stem/top hat, stem guide, valve seal, spring and spring retainer to go to a high flow valve.
I haven’t read this thread for a while, I’ve done 2 swaps with valve internals last week and quite a few in the past. Everything is interchangable. My Talon has the original valve body but now with hi-flo valve and internals. On some I did have an issue with the Talon’s retainer not taking the Condor’s valve spring. You’ll need to see what can be done, keeping the Talon valve spring in the original Talon valve body produces valve lock at my max operating pressure-160bar.If you remove the valve body and swap retainers, you’ll be sorted. Sometimes I can just remove the valve face and work from there, worst case scenario is you’ll have to remove the complete valve body to change the retainer. Complete swap takes a few minutes.
Hope this helps Lee.