OK mike and you other experts…
You guys didn’t help much when I asked about getting a scope for the Woodsman….yeah I could of bought a Zeiss… but they don’t match the gun and the current scope does so well that the replacement has to be PERFECT!
Here’s the new challenge:
I’ve just been informed that the build for my Barnes Yukon is “on.” This gun will look pretty much like the Yukon GS on the Barnes site but will actually be a .62 (rifled) making over 700 FPE peak and will likely be tuned to make two consistent high 600’s shots.
I’m getting all hot and bothered just thinking about it! 😆
Here’s the deal: I’ve shot a similar powered Barnes .62 (not to be confused with my .62 smoothbore) and the gun is deadly freaking accurate. Really, we didn’t even bother setting up targets at less than 100 yards the last time out. I’ve got no doubt that mine will be just as accurate. Especially since I was there when the barrel got rifled with the same button as the first and I got to watch it getting reamed and polished.
This gun is going to get used for hunting but 99% of the time it’s going to be shooting at targets paper or reactive at 100-250 yards. I will of course do some backyard shooting at 43 yards just to keep the neighbors on edge but mostly, this is going to be a long range gun. I hate to miss the target and I hate to get anything worse than a cloverleaf group. I can’t have crap glass on this gun.
Fortunately, the gun is paid for and I’ll be getting a little extra pay for last year’s effort in a few days. So, I’m looking for good glass.
I’ve looked at a bunch of high end scopes but I’m not decided yet and I want to be sure I’ve looked at everything I should consider.
So far, I’ve researched US Optics, S&B, Kahles, Swarovski, Leopold, IOC Z…, Zeiss, Nightforce and some others. I’m seriously considering the Nightforce scope. I spent a lot of time looking at the US Optics scopes but in the end, they don’t fit my needs. The Nightforce scopes seem to have a great rep. The Zeiss scopes also have a great rep and on top of that, I can get one in a stainless finish that will look great on the gun.
The Hendsholt and S&B are great scopes but just a bit too far out of reach. 😯 Once you get to the 5-25 range or there abouts, they are just hugely expensive and that tells me to step back a class!
So, is the Nightforce 5.5-22 x 56 NXS the scope to get?
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I would stay away from IOR tactical rifle scopes, trust me on this one and many others have had the same experience especially when trying to sale them after getting the darn thing fixed!!!! Zeiss Conquest or Nightforce NXS, or if you find a really good deal on a USO SN-3 or something. Could check Snipershide classifieds as I have bought a few used nightforces and rifles their as well as my brother and all experiences are positive. Between the USO and a NXS set at 17×56 the optical differences are negligible, the USO is fixed power and was $600 more… it is built like a brick sh1thouse though and has a nice WIDE elevation knob… The Zeiss Conquest lenses are equal if not a smidgen better than the Nightforce and USO, I was talking to a guy at the range who cracked the reticle on his Zeiss mounted on a Barrett .50. The scope tracked perfectly and stayed in focus, Zeiss warrantied it and I think he mounted it on another rifle after replacing it with a Super Sniper. (The Hawke Airmax glass is PRETTY GOOD as well, almost comparable to the higher dollar scopes) The Super Snipers are also worth looking at as well and are MIGHTY cheaper than most others. I actually like my Nikon Omgea scope as well, good glass and best of all it has an amazing eye relief, I wish Hawke could improve theirs. Leupold is also in the good category, optics are good, tracking is good, warranty is unquestionable, canted reticles used to be a problem though…
In my collection, I like MOA reticles vs. Mildot:
IOR 6-24×50 MP8 reticle, sidefocus, 30mm tube
17×58 US Optics ST-17, ERGO, EREK, MOA
3.5-15×50 Nightforce NXS NP-R1
2.5-10×32 Nightforce NXS NP-R2
5.5-22×56 Nightforce NXS NP-R2
6.5-20×50 Zeiss Conquest, duplex
1.5-5×36 Nikon Omega, BDC 250
2-7×32 Hawke Airmax MAP-6, 3 scopes
4-12×40 Hawke Airmax MAP-6
36×40 Weaver T-36 FCH
2.5-7×28 Weaver Rimfire
😉 😆
The IOR’s are good scopes. But heavy, with a strong eastern block look to them. They have Sholt-Zeiss Lens at a MUCH lower cost, and hell bent for stout!
Here is a good place to check out how different Tactical Scopes preform.
http://www.snipercentral.com/scopereviews.htm
No no, you are a current fart. 🙂
You liar, you would put a zeiss on it and we all know it!
No, I don’t have any useful info. Just showed up to pick on the knifemaker. 🙂 🙂 🙂
Jerry,
Now this might not be what you would be willing to do, but I have a scope here from long time back when I was younger that I wanted the SS finish look myself and the scope at that time I wanted, didn’t come in that finish at any price LOL…
Money always gets in the way of things around here anyway, so it didn’t matter. I bought the scope even though it was in matte black… I took the scope home and taped everything off like the OA dial, the power dial, each end of the scope really well and there was a little area where the brand and size I wanted to leave as is…
Then with all ready, I took it to the bead blast cabinet and silver it was in a matter of minutes LOL… I was told they would probably not warranty the glass if I did this, didn’t matter, as a guy has to do what a guy has to do LOL…
Might work for you as well, its going to probably give the manufacture something to void the warranty if you ever needed it though. Now sure my scope was at the time a 150 dollar 44mag. Simmons from when they first came out… Still have the darn scope and its still on the same
Ruger-SS 10/22 that I bought at the same time LOL… That older Simmons is great glass too, for 150 bucks it sure was/is LOL… At the time the store owner was laughing his butt off at me when I told him what I was going to do… The rifle and the scope look awesome together also as I bead blasted the rings as well… Great rig for a cheap 10/22 of its time way back in the 80’s LOL…
Now what you getting all ready to rig up is way different, but still I would have to say, if they have what you want, but with the finish difference not available; you might not want to do this with this sort of glass LOL… I probably would though as I am such the guy like that. I take everything apart and do all sorts of things with them differently and they always better suit me and my liking once I am through… Still 1000 dollar scopes, you might want to see if they might do the bead blasting for you and still have the warranty…
If you decide to get the NF scope, you mentioned the 5.5-22X56 NXS, heck of a scope and they have some way cool recticles to choose from as well. I liked the part about these having the 100MOA of internal adjustment. If a guy was to get this scope setup and sighted in close without moving the recticle so much off the centerline, leaving you the most of this internal 100MOA, man you would have such the ranging ability…
certainly will be most interesting to read what you end up with dude… Your slug popper once rigged out will surely be the setup… I like looking at these and the dealers that sale them on Gunbroker.com
You might have a look see there and call around to a few of these to see if they might make you a great deal on one also, unless you have a local guy you need to do business with??? Good luck with this venture dude!!!http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=152250893
This hyper link is not the power your looking for, but it has a good look at the recticles… I really like the look of the MLR for a air rifle… But never got to look at one in person… The FortWorth gun show this weekend would be the sort of place to go have a look see in the real also… Its a good gun show there!!!
he link to the Premier manufacturers site: http://www.premierreticles.com/.
I’ve just spent hours going though optics forums and boy, those guys are as nuts as the rest of us! It takes a bunch of reading to figure out credibility and then who actually has what and what they want to believe vice what they see…
So far the more I think about it the better the NF sounds. The latest thing I’m considering is the huge elevation adjustment the NF has compared to the small tube Conquest. The Zero stop feature will be valuable for my usage as well. Too bad they won’t custom color it like US Optics (or Surefire Slugs).
pyrania,
I looked at the IOR scopes (online, no store with scopes here) and they have a rep for very good optics but sometimes poor service and some models have design issues. It left me with enough questions that I moved on to other choices.
Damn good reading guys 😎
How about the IOR scopes? I have an old ior military bino 7×40 it is very good optics in there but is heavy enough(1 kilo range)
Jerry, can you get me a link to the Premier? I would like to learn more about it.
When I had the chance to really look thru a NF, after reading so many post abut them, I was disappointed. It was about on the level of a Lupy VX III. But just a touch better. Not as good as a VX-7. I looked at three different ones. Same on all three. 🙁
I really wanted it to be a lot better. I was very disappointed after hearing all the positive talk. It really doesn’t come up to the Conquest at all. Much less a full blown Davari or S&B. wish it did!
The very top Euro Glass is from Scholt. Sworo does their own. And very good it is to! 😉
I have heard it said sometimes that S&B is better glass than the Top Zeiss. However, I think it is more of a brand loyalty thing. Since Zeiss owns Scholt, I would be hard pressed to believe that they would reserve their very best products for another company rather than use it for them selves. Side by side, I can’t tell any difference. But then again, my eyes are old! 😆 I Need good Glass!!! 😉
Looking forward to see what Leica comes up with! 😀
Mike
Thanks for taking the time to relay all that information Knife!
The Nightforce uses glass made in Japan and your observations are pretty consistent with the stuff I’m seeing on the optics forums. Except most of those guys are rating the NF glass between the conquest and higher end Zeiss offerings. The Premier is made in the US but it uses German glass and is compared to Hensoldt and S&B most often. I just read a Hensoldt comparison with the Premier and the owner of both scopes says the Hensoldt is better. I believe it but I’m starting to wonder if the glass for some of these high end scopes doesn’t come out of the same shop!
I’m starting to think that the NF and higher glass is good enough and what I’m concerned about now is that when I click the scope a 1/4″ up or left at 100 yards, that’s what the reticle does! I’ve found that sometimes I have to tap the cheaper scopes to get the change to take affect and then one click may be larger than the next…
Sadly the Premier is busting my budget. The Conquest has a smaller mag range and 1″ tube but good glass and comes in stainless. The NF is bullet proof, has good glass but costs more…it does have a great reticle though…
Maybe I can find a deal on a once mounted Hendoldt?
Hey Jerry!
I haven’t seen the Premier yet. New one to me.
Your right the NF is very popular with the br crowd. It’s a damed good scope! Very repeatable and damed near bullet proof.
When you get to this level, they are all GOOD!!!
I would say that build and controls are more robust on a NF. If I were going for BR or a scope to put on a .50 Barrett, NF hands down!
You would have to go to a full blown Zeiss Sniper Scope or their Hensoldt to do better, and they are a LOT more expensive.
Any one of have good optics. Looking thru any one of them will leave you with a very good impression. The only way you will see any difference is to have the opportunity to actually look thru all of them side by side at the same time in the exact same conditions.
Before Sportsman’s wearhouse went under here, I went in early on a Tuesday morning. (Picked the time because it is so slow.) I had gotten to know a couple of the gun counter people, and some of them were interested in optics. We gathered up Zeiss Conquest, Zeiss Davari, Leupy,Burris, NiteForce, Nikon,Bushy 6200, Swaro, and one of them brought in a S&B. And a new one that I cant remember the name of. (A shame because it was very good and only 300.+!) We spend a couple of hours with all three of us comparing the different scopes.
We didn’t have a US optic Product to compare.
They were all crisp and clear. Where the top optics really came thru was in color rendition. Almost a 3D image.
All of the European optics had it. Unreal knock your socks off beautiful image. Just beautiful to look at.
The VX VII was pretty good here. And so were some of the Nikon’s. But they weren’t consistent. Three different Nikon’s of the same model would look noticeably different. You could hand pick a pretty good on though.
(This is where looking thru them side by side really pays off.) Any one of the three would have looked great by it’s self, buy when compared side by side, the difference really jumped out at you. Same with the NF and Leupy when compared to the European optics!
The low cost Zeiss Conquest beat all the US and and Japanese Glass. Hands down!
The Zeiss Davari Beat out the Conquest just as much! The Swaro and S&B were both fantastic. I just didn’t like the front bell adjustable objective in the Swaro as much as side adjustment.
You have to keep in mind that Bench Rest isn’t a big European game, so it isn’t a big part of their offerings in Scopes. (This may change as we become more and more important as their customers in this Country)
In fact, with more and more pressure from the bleeding hearts causes us to loose more and more hunting rights, target shooting will become increasingly more popular here.
The NiteForce is much better set up for this
But the European Optics always have been and still are concentrating on contrast, color correcting, resolution, and light gathering more than the other offerings out there. This is partly due to the fact that they mostly hunt deep woods, and very low light, and night hunting. Also< hunting there is a matter of privilege. More for the wealthier Folks. So they only settle for the very best. It’s pretty much a set tradition there.
You really do get a much more 3-D image with them. When you are peering into the deep shadows, all of them will give a crisp picture, however, the Euros will resolve the difference between a piece of grey tree bark and a coat of grey fur in an almost unbelievable way. An animals coat will almost jump out at you. Something the American and Japanese glass simply can’t do.
If I were going for target or Bench Rest, Leupy or night Force would be my choice. You don’t need great color rendition, or killer light gathering ability here.
For a once in a life time opportunity shot on once in a life time hunt, Or just enjoying seeing what is hiding in the shadows, European Optics have no equal. It’s what they are made for. 😉
Happy New Year Jerry!!!
Mike
I’m not sure about the Zeiss having better optics than the NF Mike. I’ve been looking about on the net and the long range shooter seem to have a lot of respect for the NF. Lots of good reviews of the optical performance.
Have to keep in mind the comparison is between the conquest vs. the NF and here’s another… What have you heard or seen about this: Premier Heritage 5-25x56mm Tactical?
I found a forum where they were comparing NF, S&B and Premier glass and several claiming the Premier was as good or better than the S&B 😯
Woo-Hoo!!! I’m an expert, 😯 or is that Ex-Fart? 😆
Well, for me, the NF is a great tough scope, just not great glass. But they make a very repeatable scope, and they hold their zero VERY WELL!!! 😉
What about the Zeiss doesn’t fit? There is the very well priced German made components, American Assembled, Conquest line and it is available in Stainless! Unconditional lifetime warranty, and fully transferable. 😀
AND— Cheaper than the NF with much better optics. 😉
http://www.opticsplanet.net/zeiss-65-20×50-ao-mc-conquest-silver-rifle-scope.html
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I have not heard this about the IOR Scopes. Odd. All I have ever heard was that they were built like a tank. 😕
Hawke AirMax in this company? A Cheap AirGun Scope??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
I know it’s made to LOOK like a Real World Tactical Scope. But it isn’t. Nor is Center Point, Leapers, Air Force, or a ton of other cheap but cosmetically correct scopes.
Lastly, the Conquest isn’t a full blown Tactical scope. For that you would have to step up to the Davari or Hensolt if going with Zeiss. Putting a Conquest on a Barrett is just plain ignorant. Apparently the operator knows very little about mil-spec equipment. But maybe a little more than any one trusting lives to a AirMax. Now that is just plain fucking stupid and irresponsible.