POI change after installng the forarm?
I had a couple of stripped threads on my frame and one of them was the forarm screw. The other was one of the frame/bushing threads..
So I have been shooting my Condor .22 without a grip in the front for a long time (3yrs!). The gun is tack driver. Well I got a new frame, installed it, but I had lost the forarm screw, so I have been shooting the gun with the new frame and NO forarm for several days until I got the screw for the forarm. I installed the forarm after all this time and did some shooting this morning at my 30yd target. Right away I noticed all the shots were going to the right of the bull. Plus I couldn’t get better than 0.57″ CTC, when the day before and the day before that I was shooting 0.31″ CTC groups and mostly ragged holes. I then switched to my 25yd target, same thing. I don’t understand how the POI changed 0.35-0.4″ to the right. The only thing that changed was installing the forarm. Maybe it is me.. not sure, but later today after I finish some chores, I plan on taking the forarm off and have another shooting session. I have not adjusted the scope at all so we ‘ll see what happens to the POI.
Maybe how tight the forarm is on the frame affects accuracy or POI? Has anyone else noticed this? A few years ago there was a thread on how and where you install the bipod, can change the POI. So it’s possible the forarm has the same effect(?).
All Replies
Viewing 14 replies - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
Shit, I would be really wary of sending anything that wasn’t on the frame that you bought. Tell them it is defective and they need to figure out how they screwed it up, if they are selling such crap chances are it will just be replaced with total crap… Just get your money back and buy a used frame.
I metal detect and the one company that makes the best machines has been fucking peoples machines up by replacing stuff that isn’t broken and sending busted machines back to the owner. Someone send in a working unit and it came back non-op and in two pieces…
A few years ago they came out with a new version and the digital screen was defective because they went with a cheaper supplier.
What I don’t get is WHY do these people do this when it will kill their profits guaranteed, must be the disease of greed…
Yep, it’s unbelievable.. and definitely not the forearm, because I got all new woold forearms/grips and it got worse, and I also used the forearm from my other Condors.
I am actually very PO’d at this frame I got and the breach slide and knob. The fricking knob is nothing like the old one. It has no screw in it and you can’t turn it by hand. It has 2 small “cuts” on the metal at the top or slots, where you can fit a dime and turn that in order to unscrew the knob from the breach slide. It is very very awkward to do. The breach knob was one of the very few things that one can replace, or the easiest mod one could do, and they took that away from us too. I am sure you can fit aftermarket knobs but not without some work or buying a new one with a longer screw/leg.
The frame looks a lot like it’s painted and not anodized. It’s almost like flat greyish paint (not fully black like my other Condors) with absolutely no clear coating, and scratches EXTREMELY easily, unlike my other 3 frames.
I called AF and they said to send the whole gun back to check it out and test it. Do I trust them? No not really, but the gun is pretty much stock at this time (this is why I replaced the frame, breach, trigger assembly, barrel bushings, etc. – to bring it back to stock because it had custom parts, missing safety, enlarged & stripped frame holes with custom bushings and bigger frame screws), so I don’t think they can mess it up much, unless they screw with my tophat setting or valve for some reason, or hit it with a hammer 😯 😆
Harry, is the new frame painted or anodized? 😯 😕 I read this thread when it started and just figured you had a bad forearm, but it’s worse.
I took my breach knob off once and it was a bitch but I had top use a small phillips I think, a coin now? WTF.
This new “cheaper” shit is frightening, I wonder if they are now buying their tanks from China and getting crap for less so they can get the same price…
AirForce is becoming Gamoi-zed. Can’t wait for the 1400fps adverts… 😆
I wonder what would happen if you added a TriRail in addition to the forearm, 3″ up and to the right? 😮 😡
They were just starting to make some good shit and now this! Very, very sad. 🙄
Any chance you can get a refund or something? 😥
Well that just sucks dude.
EEeewww AF.
It’s just a new frame with new trigger assembly, and I also got a new breach slide because the old one had some scratches on it on the lip/tophat side (not sure where they came from). That’s when I discovered the new breach knobs are different and the much cheaper made with different threads so I couldn’t use my shiny one.. I wonder if they changed vendors that make the parts too. You know need a coin to unscrew the breach knob and it’s very awkward and hard to do but it won’t do you any good taking it off.
Ouch! Good info Harry. So this is a brand new frame/gun?
Boy this is grim news indeed. 😯
Yep, I am pretty sure the new frame I put on it is warped!
I got a new set of aftermarket grips and installed them. Well the dang POI went up 1.25″ high at 30yds! I took off the new forend grip and POI was back on the bullseye. I put the grip back on, and POI 1-1.25″ high again. I tried different tightness on the screw and even very very loose where the screw was barely holding the grip without rattling around, and the result was the same high POI.
It is actually hard for me to believe the frame is warped because as soon as the screw is the slightest bit of tight to hold the grip from falling off, the POI shift up considerably. To me it looks more like a very weak frame that bends very very easily with the slightest pressure.
I should mention that once I zeroed the scope for the higher POI, it shoots very consistently, but with a flier to the left or right about every 7-8 pellets, which never happened before with the old frame, or if I take the grip off with this new frame.
I should also mention that this new frame I got is very dull and has absolutely no clear coating on it. The last frame was a very dark black and was nice and shiny and never scratched. This new frame gets scratches if you breath on it because it has a more “rough” surface and has no clear coat. My fingers would slide easily over the old frame. I called Air Force and complained and they said they are cutting back on some things to keep the price down! What a fricking answer! So they are putting out a shittier product so they can keep the price the same? I also have a new breach slide which has a cheap hollow cocking knob that you can easily bend, that does not unscrew easily. I finally got it off and my aftermarket aluminum knob would not fit! They said the same thing about that when I called them. They are making parts different to cut costs and keep the price the same!
I think my days with Air Force guns are numbered.. They are going down hill instead of making improvements or a better product.
good call lurk. frame flex is clinically proven an recommended by 9 out of 10 dentists 😆
edit – I member talk of the stated best position for the bipod was closest to the forearm.
Harry, if it is the forearm causing side deflection I wonder if it might be warped or bowed a bit. Or the re-threaded screw hole slightly off center of the frame.
You could use a straight edge to check the inner sides of the forearm it where it mates to the frame, both sides and bottom. Also, I’d lay a long straight edge along the sides of the frame.
On the other hand maybe the frame is warped and the forearm causes it to straighten.
I would sooner expect the POI to rise if tightening the forearm was really the cause.
ok so I did some shooting with the forarm off and POI went back to normal. So I put it back but did not tighten the screw as much and it’s shooting fine now. I think I might have overtightened it before by hand, who know.
Another thing that actually changes was when I put the forarm back for the 1st time, I moved the bipod up too much towards the front. So this time I put the bipod further back closer to the forearm where it used to be, and re-installed the forarm, so I actually changed a couple of things, instead of 1 at a time, but it’s all good now. Weird though how small changes like that can shift POI. Probably the bipod being so far to the front might have introduced some additional stress to a weak point in the frame.
Ype, the forarm is like new, nice and clean and no anomalies. I tried different tightness levels on the screw and shot again with same results. So you then agree that some “pressure” from the forarm on the frame can affect POI?
Well I will know a lot more when I take the dang thing off and shoot again. I guess I will have to play with the tightness to see if it makes a difference, if the POI and accuracy go back to normal without the forarm. Maybe all I need to do is re-zero the scope to accomodate the new POI and it will all be good again.. we ‘ll see.
Make sure the groove in the forearm does not have any debris or aysemtry and it goes on even and smooth.
And do not torque the bolt
Just snug up and then a bit more
Viewing 14 replies - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
They must have figured that the average Condor or Talon owner is stupid and won’t know the difference. That would be a big mistake on their part, and will certainly cost them in the long run. It’s possible they re-circuilated defective frames that were returned and thought some people won’t detect it, or they are just lacking the QC they used to have, which smells like “Chinese food” to me 🙄