Pyramid Air shipped me a lemon tank
HI! Folx – I got the condor shipment here in India and visually everything was fine. However when I filled the tank shipped with the rifle with air it went through okay. When I tried to fill the spare tank it refuses to get threaded on the pump adaptor. When I hand tightened it a bit forcefully it got jammed and I had to use a adjustable plier to unscrew the tank from the adaptor and it was stuck so hard that the adaptor got slip marks where the pliers slipped. These square threads lock solid into the adaptor and jam up as a result it cannot be filled.
On closer inspection I found that the threads on the spare tanks are “square” while the threads on the tank shipped with the rifle are properly tapered. The “square threaded “tank screws into the rifle but it stops short by about 4 mm in the pump adaptor so it cant be filled. Maybe the manufacturing process on the threads of this tank is only half done and it was shipped out – the final part in the threading process where the threads get the finished tapered shape was skipped. I have attached a photo of the 2 tanks alongside each other and the defective square threads can be clearly seen. I have also attached photos of the tanks screwed onto the pump adaptors and the gap of about 4 mm can clearly be seen in the tank with defective threads as it does not screw in and gets jammed.
I had bought two tanks because I plan to purchase a additional .22 barrel shortly but for that to happen the tank has to work !
Since the rifle is brand new can anyone tell me how these Triangle people are going to resolve this? I had read about sloppy qc of Airforce and now got to experience it first hand. I dread tothink what would happen if they made their own barrels 🙄
dipy
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I agree. There is no reason for that to have passed through as all it takes is a quick glance to see that thread was messed up, no need to even measure. I would keep pushing the issue with Airforce until they give you a new valve; that way it’s not always weighing on your mind and you can fill with whatever means available. Give them the link to this thread as a last resort.
HI! dirty harry let me know when you are comming , Will take you around my city and adjoining areas – I’m from Chandigarh 😉 . Yes India is a land of diverse cultures and languages, I have been competing the the Indian National small bore and big bore competitions for the past four years and have been to various venues all over for shooting competitons. Had a blast and interact with lotsa shooters . I mean I go to various places with the family but the shooting trips are special and mostly my son who is a junior shooter accompanies me and we have a good time together. I have imported sevral firearms from various european makers and have no problem with their QC. In fact on my recent import of a .22 rifle from Anschutz they wrote the wrong serial number on the bill and I had to just call them and they faxed a correction to the customs authority – The head of Anschutz sent me a letter of apology and a Euro 100 discount coupon for my next purchase for this mistake on their part .conversly pyramid air never mentioned the caliber of the airrifle on their invoice and despite 2 mails and 4 phone calls they did nothing! The condor not having the caliber mentioned on its frame or barrel didnt help either but since this .177 caliber is freely importable duty free by shooters the customs just let it go without any hassels.
However several shooters here use Weirauch and HW airrifles and they have never ever complained of lack of spare -even when you are willing to pay for them- hell mostly they are writing praises of the companies excellent service in the forums here because lots fo companies just send the small service kits to them free of charge. I guess airforce is content sitting on its patents for the time being ….and the support of your forum and members…… and the loyalty of a slightly crazy techie type users who dont mind finishing their job for them and still buy more 😉 Sorry for the long winded post 😳
HI! Metal Head appriciate your concern for safety and stressing about it in a clear and good way. The only thing that dissapoints me is that the parts are made on CNC machines – the valve body is made of very soft metal and I think either the CNC is very old and needs reconditioning , or the operator is not setting up the tooling properly or maybe this part was made last in the run types with a damaged tool bit. I would never expect these type of loose tolerances with CNC. The oldest cheap trick in the book of a manual lathe operator to ensure fit of the bolt is to reduce the major diameter and if a CNC operator is doing it that means he has no faith in his programming or his machine and his own capabilities to take a reading off the first piece and correctly setup up the production run. Anyways lets see how things go . I have already ordered a .22 barrel for my condor and hope to shoot that a lot. In .177 it is LOUD , city use can be a factor unless shot at the range. I am thinking of getting a talon SS for home plinking or maybe simply trying a 12″ barrel in this (there is one available locally here ) Thanks again for all your tips and help.
To make a long story Brutal… I had the very same promblem with my first condor… and the threads. Luckily for me.. I purchased direct from AF and they sent me a replacement ASAP. Good luck with things Dipy.. hang in there and it WILL get solved. Man… I would LOVE to go to India some day. What a fanastic, intriguing place it must be!!
Dipy, sorry but I don’t know how to calculate the amount of strength lost by having the threads undersized. Like you were already thinking, I would never hook that valve to a tank for filling as if it did come off then you would have the energy of your fill tank being released uncontrollably. At least with a hand pump you only have the potential to release one pumps worth of energy.
If it were a longer length of thread engagement I wouldn’t worry about it so much but you only have 4-5 threads there. Use your best judgment as far as how the adapter feels when being threaded onto the valve and obviously make sure you keep everything away from your face. If in doubt it’s better to lean on the side of caution than to end up getting hurt.
I know the time zone is bad for you but try calling Airforce if you don’t get an email response. Rachel usually answers the phone and is nice and very helpful. 1.877.247.4867 they are in the Central time zone here and Monday is a holiday so they probably won’t be open until Tuesday.
That would suck if the fill adapter ripped off as you approach 3k psi. Hopefully the die “stood up” the threads for you since that last measurement.
HI! Thanks for the heads up. The measurement of the OD om the two condor air cylinder valves I have are as follows:
1. Working OK from AF : 22 mm / 0.8661″
2. Reworked with thread die : 21.5 mm /0.8464″
So from the above it is clear that perhaps its not safe to use the reworked valve? the fill pressure could make it “rocket off” – however since the tophat remains close it should not be dangerous to fill it with a handpump – Scuba tank will be problomatic. Please let me know your views. have not heard from Pyramid Air or Airforce yet.
Just be careful. You’ve got me worried since you said it was .060″ undersized. The smallest Major diameter allowed is .858″ (.017″under) for a class 1A (really loose) thread.
That would suck if the fill adapter ripped off as you approach 3k psi. Hopefully the die “stood up” the threads for you since that last measurement.
Thanks Metal Head 😉 your Good Luck came in handy ! I got the die and gave the valve threads a twirl. It took a serious bit of effort and the end result was a proper thread as it should have been from day one in a new tank. Anyways thanks to everyone for all the help and suggestions.
Here is the end result:
Do you have access to a machine shop? They could have chased that thread down for you…..
HI! I will give you the exact OD measurements of the valve tommorow. I have acess to a machine shop but they do not have the required chasers or dies for UNF sizes they are only into metric. However we had talked about manually matching the threads and using a hss parting tool to rework the thread but I feel safer to just order a thread die ( Cost about $6) than to risk the treads being damaged.
You’d be trying for a very long time, 3000psi is as good as a weld.
HI! At high pressure its no problem but what if you have a partial tank dump or when the pressure reduces /leaks from the tank? things can get dangerous here.
BTW went to the hardware store to get a threading die to try and fix the threads . Checked the useful online resourse here that the thread is 7/8 UNF 14TPI still to be sure we used a thread gauge and measured the OD of the valve to be sure that we ordered the right die ( Mostly India is metric so getting these inch sizes is a bit of a problem) and another surprise! The OD of the valve threads is .06″ undersize than what it should be – as per tolerances for this it should be max .02″ undersize – and the valve body had metal shavings stuck next to the valve stem seat inside the bottle when I pulled it out! I never used to believe that a company that has such a product could be so shoddy on QC but now having experienced it firsthand I know what most members write is true – its just that this rifle has several factors & this excellent support group that enable it to still sell despite the manufacturers total disregard for qc.
Where are you getting your tolerance info? 0.020″ undersize on a .875″ thread is bullcrap. Curious as to what you mean by this?
Do you have access to a machine shop? They could have chased that thread down for you…..
You’d be trying for a very long time, 3000psi is as good as a weld.
HI! At high pressure its no problem but what if you have a partial tank dump or when the pressure reduces /leaks from the tank? things can get dangerous here.
BTW went to the hardware store to get a threading die to try and fix the threads . Checked the useful online resourse here that the thread is 7/8 UNF 14TPI still to be sure we used a thread gauge and measured the OD of the valve to be sure that we ordered the right die ( Mostly India is metric so getting these inch sizes is a bit of a problem) and another surprise! The OD of the valve threads is .06″ undersize than what it should be – as per tolerances for this it should be max .02″ undersize – and the valve body had metal shavings stuck next to the valve stem seat inside the bottle when I pulled it out! I never used to believe that a company that has such a product could be so shoddy on QC but now having experienced it firsthand I know what most members write is true – its just that this rifle has several factors & this excellent support group that enable it to still sell despite the manufacturers total disregard for qc.
You’d be trying for a very long time, 3000psi is as good as a weld.
dipy
😯 It shouldn’t do that. Imagine if it was charged and did that 😯
HI! guys thanks for all the replies 😉 I am talking to topairgun who is following it up about shipping me a new valve assmebly so that I can simply swap out the defective one. Just another thought after reading up in the forums – my tank unscrewed itself when I took it off the pump adaptor- the valve was left screwed in ! here we have ppl who need to hammer away after remooving the burst disks and this one just loosens up. Myabe the newer ones which have a O ring seal instead of teflon are easier to open?
dipy
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HI! Finally Dirt E Harry of Topairgun managed to get pyramid air to ship me a new valve body (Stingy guys) 🙄 Anyways Pyramid air with its usual fetish for using firearm HS codes for the export products caused the customs to detain the “double ended nut” and they wanted to see my documents and paperwork…. forwarded the previous import dos and the emails and got the part. Will get around to swaping it out when I need to . Would have been better if they had shipped a complete valve though.