R3 .25 Long tuning
Here is the data and adjustments that were made for the first 3 strings. All shots were JSB Kings weights 25.4. I’m pretty close.
Regulator was marked 135 from factory.
String 1 out of the box no changes with factory 175bar fill
Grains: 25.4
Hi Vel: 978
Low Vel: 962
Ave Vel: 969
Ext Spread: 16
Std Dev: 4
First String Matador .25 175-125 bar
Velocity
967
978
973
968
970
971
968
967
976
972
966
968
964
967
977
965
964
969
962
974
975
964
976
975
973
962
963
962
971
969
968
970
971
String 2 with changes noted
Shots 1-6 Reg Down to 630 & HST out 1.5
Shots 7-12 Reg Down 630 & HST out 1.0
All remaining Reg Down630 & HST back to factory
Grains: 25.4
Hi Vel: 794
Low Vel: 752
Ave Vel: 766
Ext Spread: 42
Std Dev: 10
Matador R3 .25 2nd String Reg dn 630 – HST unchanged -200-100bar
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
794 20.168 35.553
792 20.117 35.374
780 19.812 34.31
788 20.015 35.018
779 19.787 34.222
778 19.761 34.135
756 19.202 32.231
764 19.406 32.917
759 19.279 32.488
760 19.304 32.573
756 19.202 32.231
758 19.253 32.402
771 19.583 33.523
770 19.558 33.436
766 19.456 33.09
772 19.609 33.61
774 19.66 33.784
768 19.507 33.263
768 19.507 33.263
767 19.482 33.176
770 19.558 33.436
773 19.634 33.697
769 19.533 33.349
766 19.456 33.09
779 19.787 34.222
772 19.609 33.61
767 19.482 33.176
764 19.406 32.917
773 19.634 33.697
789 20.041 35.107
775 19.685 33.872
780 19.812 34.31
782 19.863 34.486
787 19.99 34.929
781 19.837 34.398
784 19.914 34.663
777 19.736 34.047
779 19.787 34.222
767 19.482 33.176
775 19.685 33.872
772 19.609 33.61
774 19.66 33.784
762 19.355 32.745
763 19.38 32.831
764 19.406 32.917
753 19.126 31.976
755 19.177 32.146
756 19.202 32.231
759 19.279 32.488
756 19.202 32.231
757 19.228 32.317
756 19.202 32.231
761 19.329 32.659
763 19.38 32.831
764 19.406 32.917
761 19.329 32.659
763 19.38 32.831
761 19.329 32.659
761 19.329 32.659
753 19.126 31.976
757 19.228 32.317
761 19.329 32.659
752 19.101 31.891
758 19.253 32.402
755 19.177 32.146
762 19.355 32.745
761 19.329 32.659
771 19.583 33.523
765 19.431 33.003
758 19.253 32.402
760 19.304 32.573
767 19.482 33.176
761 19.329 32.659
758 19.253 32.402
758 19.253 32.402
752 19.101 31.891
758 19.253 32.402
753 19.126 31.976
757 19.228 32.317
761 19.329 32.659
String 3 with changes noted
First 3 shots Reg Down 315-330, HST Factory
4th Shot, Reg Down 315-330, HST out 1 full turn
5th shot Reg Down 315-330, HST out 1.5 turns
Remaining shots Reg Down 315-330, HST out 1.25
Shot 76 @ 869 fps was 95 bar.
Grains: 25.4
Hi Vel: 949
Low Vel: 869
Ave Vel: 891
Ext Spread: 80
Std Dev: 14
Matador 3rd String 200-95bar Reg Down 315-330
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
949 24.105 50.789
949 24.105 50.789
946 24.028 50.468
918 23.317 47.525
872 22.149 42.881
893 22.682 44.972
897 22.784 45.375
895 22.733 45.173
901 22.885 45.781
897 22.784 45.375
904 22.962 46.086
899 22.835 45.578
897 22.784 45.375
906 23.012 46.29
905 22.987 46.188
890 22.606 44.67
898 22.809 45.477
893 22.682 44.972
896 22.758 45.274
890 22.606 44.67
896 22.758 45.274
896 22.758 45.274
899 22.835 45.578
907 23.038 46.393
903 22.936 45.984
901 22.885 45.781
892 22.657 44.871
891 22.631 44.77
894 22.708 45.072
900 22.86 45.679
886 22.504 44.269
897 22.784 45.375
895 22.733 45.173
896 22.758 45.274
890 22.606 44.67
896 22.758 45.274
891 22.631 44.77
896 22.758 45.274
883 22.428 43.97
889 22.581 44.57
880 22.352 43.672
885 22.479 44.169
887 22.53 44.369
884 22.454 44.07
881 22.377 43.771
884 22.454 44.07
890 22.606 44.67
888 22.555 44.469
880 22.352 43.672
890 22.606 44.67
877 22.276 43.375
878 22.301 43.473
883 22.428 43.97
881 22.377 43.771
878 22.301 43.473
884 22.454 44.07
888 22.555 44.469
888 22.555 44.469
890 22.606 44.67
886 22.504 44.269
879 22.327 43.573
876 22.25 43.276
890 22.606 44.67
883 22.428 43.97
880 22.352 43.672
885 22.479 44.169
887 22.53 44.369
883 22.428 43.97
887 22.53 44.369
887 22.53 44.369
876 22.25 43.276
878 22.301 43.473
884 22.454 44.07
883 22.428 43.97
877 22.276 43.375
869 22.073 42.587
870 22.098 42.685
All Replies
Viewing 8 replies - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)
Sorry, I forgot to delete the pressure y-axis. It is irrelevant to the graph.
Please keep us posted on the tune.
Good luck.
Endo
I think that is the output pressure in BAR…
I made the graph but couldn’t figure out how to post it here from an excel document.
The only discrepancy in the graph you posted is that the pressure drop over the 70 shots was 200-105 which isn’t as good use of air as the graph.
The first time I took out the regulator I made a mark on the regulator screw and the same mark on the regulator body and am referring to that as 12 on the clock. The 4th string it’s turned clockwise to 330 on the clock and HST was turned out 1.25 turns.
I already drained the air and turned the regulator clockwise to 5pm and HST out 2 full turns from the factory setting. Tomorrow I’ll do the 5 shots per 1/8 HST turn to find what HST setting is the max speed before the drop. If the max speed is 890ish I’ll shoot a full string at that setting.
Thanks to all for the input and I’ll post more data tomorrow.
One question I have is what does the 135 written on my regulator mean?
John
Jdr, I took the liberty to graph your string as shown in here.
The string is downward all the way. My guess is that your regulator pressure is set to low or HST is too strong. As Tedd said, we don’t know where your regulator pressure is at in reference to the HST setting. So, let’s start from your current regulator setting (330; do you mean degree?). It would be helpful if you can turn HST out at least by 2 full turns and then gradually increase HST by turning in 1/8 (or ¼) turn each time. Take 5 shots for each 1/8 turn, and record the average speed. You should see an increase in speed each time of HST turn-in. You have to keep turning in several times until you see the average speed is decreased. In this process you will get the maximum speed for your regulator setting (i.e., 330 in your setting). If the maximum speed is below your expectation, then you have to increase regulator pressure a little bit more, then repeat the HST adjustment to see if the maximum speed meets your expectation. If your maximum speed is too high, then you have to reduce regulator pressure and then work on the HST to get the maximum speed for that regulator setting again. You may need to take several regulator/HST adjustments to get the speed you want. Then you can rest and enjoy your gun. Hopefully this is helpful.
My description may be disorganized and confuses you, then you can follow the protocol below.
1) Adjust regulator to where you think it should be at
2) Fill the gun and turn the HST two turns out (reduce HST)
3) Shoot 5-shot group for each increment in HST (i.e., turing in the screw 1/8-turn each time) and record the speed vs. tension (e.g., 1st increment, 2nd increment…)
4) The amount of speed increase vs. tension increment should taper off and reach the plateau (this is the optimal tension for the regulator you set). The speed will drop if you further increase the tension. This is commonly referred as “1st peak” – the optimal tension.
5) The optimal tension might not match the speed you want (e.g., if the speed is lower than your target speed, see #6 below)
6) Increase regulator pressure (or decrease regulator pressure if the speed is too high)
7) Repeat the process from #1 to #6 (goal is to find the balance between regulator pressure and HST for your desire speed).
8) Hoping the sweet spot is identified…END
Tuning is a fun part of having the Edgun – as Doctor Edgun always implies.
Endo
Your ES is a little over board for me, I usually like it below 20.
Regulator at ~315-330
HST out 1.25 turns
70 shots from 200-105bar
Looks like I do need to take the regulator down a bit more and HST out 2 full then dial in as you said.
Since when the regulator at 630 and the HST was out 1.5, speed was in the 780’s. I’m thinking to take the regulator to 5pm(maybe even only 430) and start with the HST at 2 out then go in by 1/8 turns?????
Grains: 25.4
Hi Vel: 911
Low Vel: 869
Ave Vel: 885
Ext Spread: 42
Std Dev: 9
Matador 4th String 200-105bar – Regulator Down 315-330 – HST out 1.25
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
1 899 22.835 45.578
2 903 22.936 45.984
3 911 23.139 46.803
4 902 22.911 45.883
5 901 22.885 45.781
6 900 22.86 45.679
7 898 22.809 45.477
8 897 22.784 45.375
9 894 22.708 45.072
10 901 22.885 45.781
11 892 22.657 44.871
12 891 22.631 44.77
13 892 22.657 44.871
14 901 22.885 45.781
15 892 22.657 44.871
16 885 22.479 44.169
17 898 22.809 45.477
18 891 22.631 44.77
19 898 22.809 45.477
20 892 22.657 44.871
21 890 22.606 44.67
22 899 22.835 45.578
23 887 22.53 44.369
24 888 22.555 44.469
25 884 22.454 44.07
26 883 22.428 43.97
27 885 22.479 44.169
28 884 22.454 44.07
29 887 22.53 44.369
30 879 22.327 43.573
31 881 22.377 43.771
32 885 22.479 44.169
33 890 22.606 44.67
34 886 22.504 44.269
35 891 22.631 44.77
36 889 22.581 44.57
37 884 22.454 44.07
38 874 22.2 43.078
39 887 22.53 44.369
40 885 22.479 44.169
41 880 22.352 43.672
42 879 22.327 43.573
43 869 22.073 42.587
44 880 22.352 43.672
45 878 22.301 43.473
46 879 22.327 43.573
47 881 22.377 43.771
48 883 22.428 43.97
49 878 22.301 43.473
50 876 22.25 43.276
51 875 22.225 43.177
52 885 22.479 44.169
53 876 22.25 43.276
54 872 22.149 42.881
55 887 22.53 44.369
56 877 22.276 43.375
57 878 22.301 43.473
58 871 22.123 42.783
59 882 22.403 43.87
60 880 22.352 43.672
61 879 22.327 43.573
62 872 22.149 42.881
63 871 22.123 42.783
64 877 22.276 43.375
65 876 22.25 43.276
66 874 22.2 43.078
67 871 22.123 42.783
68 874 22.2 43.078
69 875 22.225 43.177
70 872 22.149 42.881
JDR, I set my Matadors up to shoot in the 880-890 range. That seems to work best for me.
I have a few suggestions.
It is hard for me to see where you are at if you keep changing the HST during a shot string.
If you turn the regulator down, turn the HST screw out 2 turns and then turn it in 1/8-1/4 turn at a time until you get the highest speed. If the highest speed you get is higher than the speed that you want, the reg needs to be turned down more.
The regulator and HST work in unison and if one is not set correctly, you won’t get the best out of your Matador.
When set up correctly, IMHO, the 25 long won’t get more than 70 regulated shots and I usually refill after 60.
I agree with you, you are getting close. Try filling the Matador back up and shooting a string with your current reg setting and your current 1.25 HST setting. You might be happy with the results. Going over 70 shots will screw up your shot fill’s extreme variation.
Since you have already adjusted the reg on a brand new Matador, you might become anal like some of us are here!
If it was my gun; I would turn the reg down a little more, still turn the HST out 2 turns, keep turning it back in until I got the highest speed and if I was happy with the highest speed, refill and shoot a shot string.
For some reason, when you adjust the reg and then shoot a shot string, on the next refill, the speed may be higher/lower. It doesn’t always happen but it sometimes does. I think that the reg has to take a “set”, once it takes it, the speeds will remain the same for each subsequent fill.
A little more about that “set”. When I get my Matador adjusted to the speed that I want, I will then shoot it another 10-15 shots after it comes off of the reg. Doing that will make sure that I have “set” the reg to the speed that I want.
Please post your results!
Viewing 8 replies - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)
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JDR, the 135 marking is the output pressure that the reg is set at.
I got a R3 25 long around a year ago and its reg was set at 150 bar. It shot around the same speeds that your gun was shooting. I find the 15 bar lower setting on your regulator to be very interesting! My R2.5 22 standard has a reg setting of 130 bar! My R3 doesn’t have the new air valve housing and the new housing must make the gun more efficient thereby allowing a lower reg setting for the same speeds.
I understood what the 6:30 and 3:30 meant. IIRC, my R 2.5 25 long’s reg was set at 155 bar, it shot the 25.4 grain JSBs at 1040. My R3 25 long’s reg was set at 150 bar and shot in the 980 range. I had to turn both of them down to the 6:30-7:00 to get them into the 885 range. Both of my 25 longs gave me around 70 regulated shots after being tuned.
With your new air valve, I would suggest that you turn the reg down a little more, maybe to the 3:45-4:00 range, turn the HST out 2 turns and then slowly turn the HST screw back up until you get the max speed that you are looking for.
Your last string was very close; I think that the shot string inconstancies were caused by a too low HST screw setting. Just turning the HST up a little will just cause the starting speeds to increase and you will still get a shot string that drops as the air tube pressure drops.
I really think that if you turn the reg down a little more and adjust the HST: you will be Golden!