Scope ring height?
I’m wondering if some kind soul out there would take this measurement for me (Gen4 Vulcan Pup 5,5/.22cal)?
I would really appreciate it as it will help me to narrow down my choice of rings.
Cheers!
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Viewing 11 replies - 1 through 11 (of 11 total)
You’re going to be set up very nicely indeed! That is a fantastic kit of materials you have on order. It is great that you have ready access to high pressure air. PCP is much more enjoyable with unlimited air supply.
I use the Air Chrony as well, albeit an earlier generation. Can’t tune the gun, check FPS stability nor measure ballistic coefficient without one.
Strelok Pro and Chairgun are both on my phone.
Here is mine newly dressed in black and ready for an evening formal.
http://www.talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=36153&p=373896#p373896
I shoot JSB 18.1 in my Vulcan 22. No issues. I’ve tried the Predator shorts (which do work in the mag) but not enough to determine exact accuracy.
After adjusting my regulator to 126 Bar and adjusting the HST, I’ve averaging 888 fps across 66 shots (6 full mags) from 250 bar to 140 bar.
I also recommend the patchworm: http://www.patchworm.com/patchworm.html
I got the hard case instead of the poly zip pouch. I added the 0.17 kit to the order in case I ever get a 0.177 caliber PCP. Not much price increase and saved shipping $ later. They also have Ballistol if you want to add that to the order: http://www.patchworm.com/solvents.html
I did purchase some extra patches but have found you can still use homemade ones from old tee shirts, etc.
Oh and here’s mine with an MTC Connect scope. I turned the rail around so I could use 2 separated rings (well the back one is 1/2 a ring). That is a UTG wheel I modified to fit the MTC.
Glad to hear about the gun not being pellet picky. I was dreading dropping a bunch of money and investing even more time trying to figure out what it wants. I likened it to trying to figure out what Her Ladyship wants…an impossible feat by mere mortal men.
I’ll add the AA Diablo Field’s to the list of potentials.
This is what I’ve purchased thus far in preparation for delivery of the gun:
`30 min SCBA tank
`ATFS micro-bore fill whip with liquid filled gauge for the SCBA tank
`Deadhead for the whip
`Nikon Aculon laser range finder
`Athlon Argos 6-24×50 BTR scope
`Biathlon cocking lever from Evgeny
I also ordered an Atlas bi-pod and fill-probe QD to be delivered with the gun. Is there anything else I should consider getting (aside from barrel cleaning supplies)?
I will be ordering a scope sun shade, a LDC if I feel the gun is still too loud, an Air Chrony MKIII (not sure why more people don’t own this? It looks like a fantastic unit), and as mentioned before, a bubble level. I’ve been working with Eric Sanders (Scope-Werks) to have a parallax wheel made, and I think he’s come up with a really nice solution. Again, I just need the gun in order to finalize the wheel diameter.
Chairgun is on my laptop and phone, and I will most likely get Strelok Pro along with a wind meter.
For giggles, I work part-time at a dive shop. So, filling tanks/hydro’s/VIP’s are a doddle. I’ll end up cascading my HP 95cf 3442psi tanks for initial fills, and then use the SCBA to top the gun off.
Thanks for the tips about ring mounting. Sounds like something I will need to play around with a bit once the gun arrives. Two weeks ago I found some Nightforce Ultralight high-mount rings in a clearance bin, which I suspect someone returned after figuring out they wouldn’t work. They were about 75% off, but I didn’t buy them because I wasn’t sure what size I needed. I’m pretty confident that they are still in that bin.
I know I’ve already said it, but I appreciate and enjoy talking with you guys!
Cheers
I think you’re wasting your pellet pack before you get the barrel seasoned. On the other hand, the Vulcan really isn’t pellet picky. Season the barrel with a couple hundred of whatever (except maybe those super hard Crossman pellets). You will need time to get your technique down anyways. Then, try out your $$ pellet pack.
My 22 Vulcan really likes the Air Arms Diabolo Field .22 Cal, 5.51mm, 16 Grains, Domed. Pyramid Air always delivers them in good condition and their 4 for the price of three deal is even better with the NRA discount. A couple thousand pellets goes real quick.
I started out a year ago with PCP. Filling with a Hill pump was a good 20 minutes work after every 5 magazines. Roughly 3-4 pump strokes/pellet and my shoulders really didn’t like it. Eventually transitioned to a tank and compressor. That has been luxuriously wonderful, but it’s a big jump in cost.
The Vulcan 22 can also be “indoors” quiet with a little help from “accessories.”
Double loads get past the shroud baffles OK with a surprise lower than normal POI. I haven’t ever triple loaded.
Dry firing a PCP differs from a springer. Springers — never. You already know that. PCP’s can be dry fired WHILE THERE IS SUFFICIENT AIR in the supply. The valve depends on having some pressure in the air cylinder to avoid damage. If you dry fire below 80 bar, you will likely damage the valve. Personally, I would be leary of dry firing lower than 100 bar just to be safe. Once the hammer slams the valve and swedges the metal, you won’t be happy. So, yes, dry firing is OK – IF and only if you have enough air pressure.
I also shoot lefty, but am mostly right handed. That is one reason I chose the Vulcan – easily switched from left to right
BTW, when you mount your scope, pay attention to how you space the rings, particularly if you need space for your bubble level on the scope. There are a couple slots on the rail that you cannot use due to the mounting bolts. Once you adjust for eye relief, you may find your rings need to be in a different slots than you expected to also leave room for a level on the scope tube.
My Vulcan needed quite a bit of elevation to center correctly. I ended up grinding my own elevation plate for under the picatinny rail to keep the scope knobs mechanically centered. You might want to consider Burris rings to get the same effect. Those are working great on my night vision setup to effect basic windage and elevation adjustment. They just aren’t quite as tall as most tall rings.
Unless you are routinely have a sub-MOA hold, the Vulcan is going to outshoot your own accuracy.
This is absolutely fantastic information, and I really appreciate everyone chiming in!
~ Would everyone suggest that I just shoot some “whatever” pellets for the first couple hundred, or should I go straight to the sample pellet pack to find what works best?
~Regarding double-loading: As I understand it, the Gen4 gun does not have the anti-rotate knob. Is it safe to fire the gun if it’s been double-loaded, or might I damage the o-rings? I’m assuming that firing a double-load is not preferred, but *relatively* safe to do. What about triple-loads? My guess is that it’s better to extract the pellets?
The statement made about keeping the breach away from your face when firing a double-load is what I consider to be sage advice. I wouldn’t have thought about it, so I can’t thank you enough for potentially saving my face!
~Is there any concern regarding dry-firing the gun?
~The low-pro Vortex bubble level is high on my list of levels. I was also considering the following:
`US Optics rail mount
`Holland’s Signature Series
`Flatline Ops Patriot Plus Micro Adjustable
`Accuracy 1st Scope level
`Tubb Precision Bubblevel
My favorite is the Accuracy 1st but, I’m a lefty shooter and they are designed for “normal” shooters. A note on their web site states that they will be developing a level for lefty’s, so I sent them an email (which they never replied to). I also tried calling them, but got a pre-recorded message with no way to leave an actual message.
Thanks again guys! I hope you don’t mind me asking so many questions, and I know I will have more to come. I’ve been reading/watching YouTube as much as possible, but always seem to come across conflicting information. So, it’s fantastic to hear from they guys “in the know”.
Cheers!
Get yourself a Vortex Lo Pro bubble level. I have three of them and Love it. So discreet yet does the job perfectly.
Zoey, my best advice to you is to avoid the temptation to do too much to your Vulcan when it first arrives. At the most, I would do a gentle cleaning with a patchworm. And by that I do mean a real patch worm.
Your main mission went it arrives is to simply use it for a couple hundred pellets. Give it a chance to settle in before considering doing anything to it mechanically. It will probably arrive in better condition than what your first foray into its internals will achieve. Read a LOT on this forum and watch all the videos you can find. You’ll want to dig into the gun and “fux” it up, but hold off a while.
The first real problem you will likely encounter is accidentally double or triple loading pellets. The bolt moves back very easily until it meets the hammer spring resistance. Even if you don’t pull the bolt back far enough to actually cock the hammer, and then move the bolt forward, a pellet is still loaded upon your pushing the bolt forward. Moving bolt forward resistance is small. You won’t feel the being loaded pellet. When you once more attempt to cock the Vulcan, you stack another pellet into the barrel. It happens easily if you do too light or short a pull backward, fail to cock, and then try to cock again.
Every time you push the bolt forward, ANOTHER pellet is loaded. The classic is letting a youngling try the Vulcan. They aren’t strong enough to cock the gun and cycle the bolt back and forth trying to make it work. Before you know it, the barrel is jammed full of pellets, maybe to the point of needing professional service. Heck, I often use my thumb against the back of the Picatinny rail to get extra leverage when cocking my Vulcan.
The little red knob that sticks out the back of the gun indicate the hammer has been cocked.
When you inevitably find yourself in the situation of having loaded a pellet, but not actually cocked the hammer, remember this sequence to get out of trouble.
Assuming you don’t have a NO ROTate slide on your gun….
1. Pull the cocking knob all the way back and lock it in rearmost position. At this point, the hammer is cocked, but another pellet has NOT yet been loaded. (you haven’t pushed the bolt forward yet)
2. Remove your magazine. This makes the subsequent motion of the bolt NOT load another pellet.
3. Advance the bolt to firing position. The gun is ready to fire and HAS the previously loaded pellet ready to go.
4. Discharge the gun in a safe direction to clear the pellet. You could take a normal shot, but that would mean putting your eyes right at the magazine less breach. I’ve done it, but it probably wasn’t a great idea.
If you have a no ROT slider, you would slide it backwards to prevent magazine rotation, cock the gun, advance the bolt, slide no ROT forward, and finally take a shot. Current generation gun omit the “No ROT” slider. I never could remember to use it BEFORE pulling the bolt back. So, I just ignore my slider and remove the magazine.
The barrel caliber will not alter the cheek rest height. That is literally “under the hood”. You cheek weld is atop the trigger block or the rearmost portion of the barrel cover. Both of those surfaces are about the same plane. You can estimate your needed ring height by using a large, hard back book. Establish a cheek weld on the book’s spine and pretend it is the gun. Sounds silly, but the Vulcan’s cheek weld will feel very similar. Hold the book level and look straight ahead. Measure how high your pupil is above the spine. That “pupil height” is how high the optical axis of your scope needs to be mounted above the Vulcan’s barrel cover.
All in inches…
Ring height = Pupil Height – 0.95 – scope TUBE radius
That will get you in the ball park.
Coming from a springer, you’ll be amazed how forgiving the Vulcan is regarding hold.
Thanks a lot Guykuo! I see that I neglected to say that I bought the .22cal, which I would imagine has a different OD barrel than another caliber.
I’m really glad I asked the question because I had assumed that I would most likely need low-mount rings in order to keep the scope as close to the barrel as possible. Your explanation of cheek weld in relation to picatinny rail/scope height makes absolute sense. If I must go to a high-mount ring, I would think that cant then becomes an issue. If so, it looks like I will need to purchase a bubble/anti-cant device. The scope I will be using is a 6-24×50 Athlon Argos BTR.
On a side-note, and being that you appear to have such a wonderful wealth of knowledge, is there anything I should/shouldn’t do to this gun before I start shooting? Barrel cleaning, strip down to check all bolts for tightness, etc? By chance, do you have the bolt torque specs for the entire gun?
I plan on buying a pellet sampler pack in order to try and narrow down what the gun likes the best. I see many people praising the JSB Heavies, but I have a sneaking suspicion that each gun may have a different preference.
Birdman: Your thoughts just make me all the more anxious to get my gun! It’s been a long 33 days for me…especially when I have nothing but the scope rings to purchase. This is my first PCP (I currently shoot a RWS Diana 52 in 5,5) . I must ask, what is “over cycling pellets”?
My .25 Vulcan is a first Gen. gun and I really do not know if there is a difference between this or a Gen. 3 or Gen. 4 scope rail .
I have a VISM 3-9×42 w/red laser scope mounted on it with Medium scope rings . I shoot out to 48 yards dead center shooting
King .25 Diabolo 25.39 gr. pellets and nothing flies away . Of all of the Vulcans made first Gen. through fourth Gen. I have never
seen a post about any .25 Vulcan first Gen. gun ever having any issues except for hammer slap noise which was an easy mod to
correct . I have never had any issues with this gun except letting my brother borrow it and over cycling pellets in the barrel which
I had Evgeny replace with a new CZ barrel through Tony at Talon Tunes .
FROM : THE BIRDMAN
0.95″ on my 2nd generation Vulcan from top of rail to top of cover over barrel (cheek rest). Probably going to be the same on gen 4.
You will end up with high rings. I tried various low, medium, and high rings. Typical for a bullpup, cheek weld is so high on the Vulcan that your scope needs to be tall to meet the height of your eye. Otherwise, you’ll need to tilt your head forward and unnaturally look up. For comfortable cheek weld and neutral head position, my optical scope ended up at 2.8 above the barrel on high rings.
The high scope mounting makes holdover very significant at ranges 20 yards or closer. My day/night vision rig is even higher at 3.3 inches! So, the holdover issue is just as bad. You’re going to memorize holdovers and estimate ranges for closer targets on your Vulcan.
BTW, I use a low mounted laser (1.0 inch above barrel) that is zeroed 12 & 29 yards to give an instant ranging & hold over solution for pesting. With the laser, POI from 5 yards to 30y are within 1/2″ of laser POA. Beyond 27, I can simply aim dead on scope cross hairs from 27 to 45 yards. No more guessing range/holdovers.
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I’ve got to watch all of Ernest’s videos about the Vulcan. Somewhere in there I’m sure he has information about adjusting the regulator pressure.
Thank you for the link to the Patchworm and Ballistol. I’ve bookmarked them. Looks like it would be really safe for the barrel.
Gentlemen, your guns are absolutely out of this world, and exactly the “look” I’m going for! I just wasn’t sure how to get there. I am truly in awe!
Cheers!