Shoe box compressor, 3000 vrs 4500 Recommendations please
I am now on the list for the next production run of the shoebox compressor. I will soon have the choice between the 3000PSI model or the 4500PSI model.
I have two scuba tanks, and I now cascade them, other than the 40 mile round trip to town, this works fine.
Question I have is this, what is the advantage of the 4500 over the 3000 PSI tanks using the AF rifles and 2240/Diso rifles?
I see three points now in favor of the 4500 PSI system:
1: If I get a big bore that needs a 3400 fill.
2: going to Eastern Oregon to hunt rats and need to fill numerous times with the tank that accompainies me.
3: A pony tank and regulator in a back pack, for extended hunts would be handy for bird control
The disadvantages of the 4500 PSI are the huge cost involved with a scba tank, and a regulator if I wish to connect an umbilical cord from the tank to the rifle, or just have the 4500 sbca tank.
80 Grit just bought such a tank and regulator, the cost of the 4500 system scares me.
I will soon have a choice between the two PSI systems. If I order a 4500psi system and stay with the 3000psi tanks, I have to monitor them continuously while filling to keep from blowing a burst disc.
The fact that life has thrown too too many fights and too many concussions my way, makes me worry about forgetting that I am filling this thing and forget the fact that I need to keep track of it.
So it looks like a shoe box compressor with a 3000 PSI, will cost me $450.00 for the two compressors that I will need beause I have the tanks already.
A 4500 PSI shoe box will cost me, nearly $1400.00 For the 2 compressors, 88 ci scba tank, and regulator.
Like you I have an airgun budget, what would you folks do?
Roachcreek
All Replies
Roach, I just called airhog. They told me 2200 psi. They they get 160 shots at 950fps with kodiaks. They are sending me a shot string and chrony data. I will pm you when I get home.
I told him that I never used it, by the time I got it I had my first Edgun. He wanted to know how I liked it as he is thinking about getting one! I think everybody wants one! LOL!
Oldgoat,
What is the output of the regulator?
Roachcreek.
I put all of the Condor stuff up for sale once and nobody was interested. I need to try again.
Oldgoat,
I have heard the Edguns will do that.
So you never played with it yet, a lot of money to be setting around gathering, dust?
Roachcreek
Yes, I do. I ordered it from AirHog. It took me a couple of months to get it. By the time I got it and my Brad Selph high flow valve, I had my first Edgun. The Condor stuff has just been laying around since then.
IIRC, the AirHog setup would get a regulated 60 shots in the 950 range, using Kodiaks. I had planned on changing out the AirHog modified Condor valve for the Selph valve and using Jerries slugs for some wild fpe.
The Edgun changed all of my plans.
Oldgoat,
Do you own such a thing?
Roachcreek
Roachcreek, Do you mean something like this?
This setup is available from AirHog. 4500 psi tank, regulator, quick fill and Condor valve.
Old Goat,
Thanks, you have enlightened me to new prospects that I suspected were there.
Right now there is that lot of 5 30 minute tanks for about 350. with shipping, just need to find four others interested in 60 dollar tanks. Or wait for a better deal.
Again I ask, how about a 4500 PSI tank to replace the AirForce tank, just make it the same dimensions and put ETACREG 4500/3000 PSI regulator.
Lots of shots, what say you?
Roachcreek
the 15 year DOT deal wasn’t so much the product of Nanny Government playing it safe but was more a result of input by the manufacturers who had less of an interest in product safety and more of an interest in using regulation creation to invent a forced replacement market in a time period half of that of even socialized Europe
lots of nonsence in Federal regs & rules is designed to finanicially benifit a particular industry and nothing more…
Roach, as to a catastrophic failure of a SCBA tank, the DOT has only documented a grand total of 1, as far as I could find out. I checked the DOT records; they regulate these tanks and take their safety very seriously.
A volunteer fireman had been on a training exercise and was returning to the fire station. He had a SCBA tank in the back of his pickup. I can’t remember exactly how it happened but, the SCBA tank was exposed to “an industrial strength paint remover”. When he got back to the station, whoever refilled the tank, didn’t notice the solvent. The tank was filled and put into the back of a fire truck. The solvent softened the epoxy in the carbon fiber, fiberglass and epoxy matrix. IIRC, it took 3-4 days for the tank to rupture.
When it went, it took off the back half of the fire truck!
I spent quite a bit of time researching the safety of SCBA tanks before I got my first one. I have had it about 2 years now, don’t expose it to industrial strength paint solvents and treat it very gently. There is a You Tube video of a guy using a guillotine type affair to shear off the valve on some SCBA tanks. Those suckers really take off.
I went to the local fire station to have my 44 cf and 66 cf tanks filled today. While the fireman was filling them, he asked me what I used them for. I showed him a pic of my .22 cal Edgun which he thought was very “nice” by the way!
We started talking about SCBA safety. He told me that they are in the process of switching over from 2600 psi aluminum bottles to 4500 psi SCBA tanks. One of the newer volunteers wasn’t paying attention and tried filling a 2600 psi tank to 4500 psi. The fireman told me that the burst disk ruptured and “scared the shit out of the guy.” It didn’t do any damage to the fill station or to the tank except that the valve had to be replaced and a new burst disk put in the old valve.
We talked about the 15 year lifespan of the SCBA tanks. I told him that my 44 cf’s hydro will expire when the tank is 14 years old. I plan on getting it hydroed then and continue using it after the tank has reached it’s 15 year lifespan. He told me that he would do the same thing and that my tanks don’t get near the abuse that their tanks get.
I called the company that the local fire stations send their SCBA tanks to for a hydro. One of the DOT certified testers there told me that “officially” he had to tell me that after 15 years, the tank had to be destroyed.
I asked him if he would fill a 19 year old SCBA tank to 4500 psi, if the hydro was current, for personal use? He told me that he would and that the same tanks are used in Europe for 30 years. The European tanks still have to go through the 5 year hydros and visuals. He also told me that when the tanks first came out, nobody knew how long the tanks would last and that the DOT went with the 15 year lifespan, just to be safe.
Over the years I watch Tom advance his AutoMag paintball gun which is a very precision machine.
You guys are in good hands with him making the ShoeBox.
Tom,
Every new product is expected to have some bugs. I would say you did pretty darned well for a first run. I had ordered the 4500 PSI and I will stick with that decision instead of the 3000PSI I was considering.
Thanks all to the help and imput, that is the great thing about this site, with all the members here to draw on for information it is possible to get things right the first time.
I have checked on ebay for the 4500 tanks, I think the 30 minute or the 45 minute tanks are tho ones I will consider, simply more mobile, and having the compressor here to fill them I don’t think I would need the 88.
Gawd if you would have only been around when I was getting married to my exwives. 😆
Roachcreek
We did have a problem with some vent screws. We have been sending out replacements as it happens. The new batch will all have updated vents.
We had about 5-6 compressors have problems with one delrin tube in the upper cylinder. I spec’d it very tight at 1 thousandths clearance and a few were tight on the shaft. When the tube heated up, it expanded and with no where to go, it jammed down on the shaft.
I have now opened up the clearance on that part and don’t expect further problems. If yours has not locked up yet its probably going to be fine.
Tom Kaye
What are the first run problems with the shoebox compressor?
Roachcreek
I can’t recall the details exactly and I can’t seem to find the online forum posts anymore but there were some problems with the bleed valves on a few units. Also, I remember reading that there were a few units with internal part sizing issues (I think it had to do with the cylinder blocks and pistons). Anyway, my unit seems to be uneffected and has worked flawlessly. I can’t imagine using a hand pump with all of the shooting I have been doing!
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Interesting thread. Speaking of catastrophic events with carbon tanks Ispoke to the owner of Air Hog about how strong they are. He said he went to the manufacturer and saw them being made. Every so often they take one off the line a pressurize it until it blows. It takes over 19,000 psi to do so and he said it was pretty anti climatic as they just kind of pop open with a big huff. Of course they are in a big enough space for the pressure to dissipate into easily as compared say a vehicle, garage, etc.