Q:

Some numbers stock hammer, cut down hammer, valve mod

Lots of numbers, maybe someone will find something useful.
12 inch TSS shooting JSB 16g chrono at 21 feet

Fill 3300
End 2200
TH .075
Stock Hammer
Valve Mod
718 PW2
876 PW8
878
873
874
858
857
856
861 PW MAX
859
854
856
851
853
850
840
834
844
841
832
830
824
824
822
814
815
810
809
804
805
804
799
794
793

34shots 1100psi
32psi per shot

Fill 3200psi
End 2100
TH.075
876 PW10
872
868
868
863
864
862
862
857
853
858
853
859
848
853
843
839
842
839
835
838
823
838
829
826
819
819
813
812
817
806
804
805
795
792

35 shots 1100psi
31psi per shot

Fill 3200psi
End 2150psi
TH .075
866PW6
868
864
868
855
858
852
855
851
841
846
842
843
839
833
831
826
822
825
817
825
816
813
814
813
810
806
805
807
805
796
793

32shots 1050psi
33psi per shot

Fill 3200
End 2100
TH.075
774 PW4
815
843
857
876
872
854
868
874
878
870
873
867
869
867
867
865
861
865
863
853
852
855
855
847
849
852
846
841
832
835
833
829
829
827
828
814
820
815
814
811
808
805
807
802
800
797
799

50shots 1100psi
22psi per shot

Fill 3200
End 2100
TH .075 –1/2turn
PW4
866
867
869
869
866
859
858
864
855
848
849
846
844
848
851
836
843
843
833
831
832
826
825
823
820
823
816
816
812
815
808
807
804
802
802
796
799
796
798

39shots 1100psi
28psi per shot

Fill 3200
End 2400
TH .075 –1 1/2 turn
PW4
719
712
697
654
703
704
699
698
699
710
708
695
711
706
710
692
695
689
703
704
698
700
692
712
676
706
680
680
676
678
692
681
692
679
677
672
682
689
665
668
682
669
666
666
683
658
663
682
657
702
663
669
674
653
654
657
654
663
626
653
657
651
654
654
658
652
644
659
687
657
646
647
660
634
642
638
639
695
643
637
639
634
633
633
634
634
632
638
646
632
635
648
636
633
639
634
635
624
624
632
628
624

103 shots 800psi
8psi per shot

Fill3200
End???
PW4
TH .075 –1 ¼

854
860
856
856
857
855
854
852
828
849
846
854
844
839
843
844
839
842
840
834
835
834
832
830
831
832
808
602
826
832
832
829
825
823
823
821
818
823

38 shots

Fill 3200
End 2200
TH 1 turn out from 0.00
Stock Hammer cut 3/16 inch shorter (shorter and lighter)
PW8
885
876
877
878
872
326
876
866
866
867
868
868
865
864
861
859
855
856
858
852
849 PW4
848
845
843
836 PW2
834
493
834
830
829
829
827
348
377
822
820 –1/8 turn TH
822
816
816
815
803 –1/8 turn (1/4 total or ¾ out)
803
803
800
802
798
802
799
799
789
790
792

Fill 3000
End 2200
Stock Hammer cut 3/16 inch shorter
TH ¾ turn out from 0.00
PW6
855
858
852
855
854
322
852
854
850
432
850
848
847
844
845
841
844
842
842
842
839
836
836
834
835
830
826
830
835
822
829
824
820
320 PW0
572
622
678
633
649
821 PW2
814
818
812
803
808
812
809
810
805
810
804
804
803
803
802 PW4
800
800
800
796
797
795

61 shots –7 low shots = 54shots 800psi
14.8 psi per shot

Talon/Talon SS

All Replies

Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 23 total)

1 2
quote badcompne:

I’m pretty sure that cutting the hammer down increses the speed at which it travels also. By being shorter it has further to go compared to what it was. I would rather cut mine down then drill holes in but I have no lathe to cut it down.

What did you think of my idea to increase valve return spring strength to bring the curve upwards in power. Any input?

*** the sear determines the hammer position and so unless that is changed the hammer travels the same distance.
****

*** if you mean it shifts the ‘heart of the fill’ pressure up then that is true
BUT most Airforce guns seem to regulate poorly and so the shots start out at the highest velocity and reduce speed each shot thereafter.
****

I’m pretty sure that cutting the hammer down increses the speed at which it travels also. By being shorter it has further to go compared to what it was. I would rather cut mine down then drill holes in but I have no lathe to cut it down.

What did you think of my idea to increase valve return spring strength to bring the curve upwards in power. Any input?

Hi Rusty I used Microsoft Excel, I’m no wizard at it just put the numbers into the spreadsheet and do the graph wizard to make the graphs. On my shooting I then copy and paste the chart from Excel into Microsoft “Paint” and add notes and stuff to help me remember what I was doing or why shots change velocity etc.

Looks like your coming along nicely!

Jim.

My goal was to lighten the hammer.

Not sure about the return spring to curve relation you bring up, I will give it some thought.

Cutting the hammer does not reduce travel of the hammer.

What programs are you guys using to do these graphs?

Rusty

Your doing the same as cutting the hammer down in weight. Make it (hammer) lighter and the spring automatically is stronger in reference to the hammer. I think in the long run its easier to fine tune the hammer weight to the spring, then the other way around.

Rusty,

You are working on the same thing I am trying to do. What was your main reason for cutting the hammer shorter? Less weight? Or are you trying to get a bit more speed from the spring (longer distance to travel)?
I was thinking of drilling a few holes in the hammer to reduce weight. I charted your 2nd to last string but am trying to figure out how to put it in here. Any help anyone? Also, got a question….it seems that the only time a curve can start (as opposed to always being on the far side of the curve) is when the valve return spring starts to overpower the pressure inside the tank. When the pressure is high…all the shots go downward in velocity. As the pressure in the tank decreases, the valve return spring starts the curve. With a normal valve, spring, and hammer….this valve spring dominance dosen’t usually start until the pressure is low – probably less then 2000psi or so. What would happen if a stronger valve spring was used? This would enable the valve spring to start the curve at a higher pressure, therefore giving higher velocity, and therefore giving more consistent shots. This is the direction I am trying to go. thanks for any input

Edit – I just charted your last string and from shot #10 thru the rest of the shots, velocity is on the back of the curve (decending).

2nd edit – trying to put the chart in here – dark blue line is the 2nd to last string, purple line is the last string.

Still Wolverine 16g (JSB) in .22

What pellet weight/brand?

I am still using the stock hammer cut 3/16 shorter, nothing special as far as appearance goes, I just chucked it up in the lathe, made some marks for reference and cut the end off.

Slight differences from my memory last night. These were on paper, not my brain…..

3000psi fill
Hammer cut 3/16 shorter
Valve stem stock ID, ported inlets
Brass Insert/ Valve stem o-ring mod. I also bored the ID of the brass insert to eliminate friction. Now the valve stem rides only on the o-ring.
TH about .050
PW8

786
796
797
792
794
794
794
796
793
802

804
798
794
797
797
794
796
796
796
796

796
793
789
790
788
790

26 shots/500psi
19.5 psi per shot

I am not done yet, need better efficiency now 😉

Another good(maybe better??) spread from earlier yesterday

3000psi fill
Hammer cut 3/16 shorter
Valve stem stock ID, polished
Brass Insert/ Valve stem o-ring mod
TH?? less than .070
PW8

781
784
772
778
776
781
781
787
790
784

786
782
784
783
780
783
782
779
776
782

778
778
778
777
774
776
776
774
769
773

772
770
769
765
765
765
761

37 shots 400psi
10.8 psi per shot

Very nice! can you post a pic of how your hammer turned out? and of course all the details…

Jim.

That sounds more like it, details friend. Glad to hear your making progress.

I just got a fantastic string. Will post the ##’s in the morning.

26 shots

789 up to 804 back down to 788 26 shots!!!!

Will post the specifics tomorrow.

I agree.

My experience is showing that the PW is now for tuning, not for velocity control.

I like a PW setting as low as possible, less cocking effort, I am getting pretty good numbers, I think.

I am planning to order some extra valve parts and try a couple of different combinations.

Rusty

quote rustykfd:

quote Bodhisdad:

Buy cutting the hammer down your affecting the springs stroke which is important. I’d think along the lines of a standard hammer length but made of delrin or ali.

Correct me if I am wrong. I am only affecting the preload on the spring, and hammer weight, the hammer is still traveling the same distance.

By cutting the hammer shorter I have effectively given myself a lower range on the powerwheel (say -2 to 14 vs. 0 to 16) while lightening the hammer at the same time.

Am I looking at things the right way?

Rusty

Yes, with a but,,,,,,,,,,, with all my valve mods and tophat adjsutments it has always seemed to me that the most consistent strings come when i have more preload on the spring, like in the 8 range. You could shim the front of the PW out as much as you have taken from the hammer to gain the distance back. Thus you gain extra compression on the hammer spring which might be needed as you lighten the hammer. Yes, the travel is the same but mass x velocity applies, if i’m thinking correctly.

Also every single modded valve, tophat adjustment i’ve done has rendered the PW almost obsolete in terms of controling velcity. It does help fine tune consistency, but does little to gain or reduce power. So the preload has to be taken into consideration as you shorten it and restrict the compression of the hammer spring.

quote Bodhisdad:

Buy cutting the hammer down your affecting the springs stroke which is important. I’d think along the lines of a standard hammer length but made of delrin or ali.

Correct me if I am wrong. I am only affecting the preload on the spring, and hammer weight, the hammer is still traveling the same distance.

By cutting the hammer shorter I have effectively given myself a lower range on the powerwheel (say -2 to 14 vs. 0 to 16) while lightening the hammer at the same time.

Am I looking at things the right way?

Rusty

Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 23 total)

1 2
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