Struggling with Condor/Telon

Hi Guys,

I belong to a small airgun club in deepest darkest Africa. Resources and experienced gunsmiths are in short supply. It was a pleasant surprise to discover this forum – where I hope somebody will be able to advise me in solving an ongoing problem with my Airforce rifles

The following tests were done by firing 100 pellets 100 shot string through the chrony with a 3000psi fill:
– Talon on min and max power with standard parts
– Talon on min and max power with heavy brass hammer
– Talon on min and max power with aluminium breech slide
– Talon on min and max power with heavy brass hammer, and aluminium breech
– Condor SS on min and max power with standard parts
– Condor SS on min and max power with heavy brass hammer
– Condor SS on min and max power with aluminium breech slide
– Condor SS on min and max power with heavy brass hammer, and aluminium breech

Every test produced a bell-curve and it’s driving me to drink. My suspicion is that the hammer strike is not opening the valve enough due to the pressure in the tank. Each shot drops the tank pressure, which in turn, allow the hammer strike open the valve further/longer. Pellet speed continues climbing to a certain point and starts dropping off.

A regulator might be the answer – adjustable from 1000-3000psi. While searching, it was surprising to find out how many companies manufacture Airforce spares. Before spending money, I would appreciate input from forum members on the best regulator, and which online shops can be trusted to deliver. Somebody poster something on an in-tank reguator – that would also be pretty cool.

Regards,
Swisscheese

cdegrassi

Participant

November 14, 2014 at 11:53 am

Hi,

I see. Well, I am not sure I would apply the same logic. Long distance amplifies variable effects that are independent from the shooter.
Those are for example related to pellet ballistics, loss of gyro and wobbling. Also the wind becames a bigger issue because the pellets becames exponentially more sensitive to the drift.

In my opinion it is not like running at higher elevation, it’s more like running in the mud.
You make things difficult because the track is hard not because the runner skills need improvement.

But this is just my opinion. I hope you succeed in your fun shooting efforts 🙂

Cheers
Chris

swisscheese

November 14, 2014 at 6:46 am

No official category for 100yards, so we just blow up the Bisley 10m Olympic targets to fit an A4 (Letter) page. We are using the smae logic as the long distance runners training at high altitude. The extreme distances really help fine-tuning the shooter’s form. The tiniest mistakes are amplified.

Even 50 shots per fill would be fine, just as long as they are consistent.

Regards,
Simon

November 13, 2014 at 11:41 pm

wow, this is way over my head. I do target shooting and field target up to 50yds and that is rare.

But I think that 100 shots is going to be hard to achieve with your performance and power requirements.
at 750fps you are going to have a pretty big ballistic curve. At 1000fps your lighter pellets are going to start loosing accuracy at that distance.
You are going to need heavy bullets and lots of air to send them flying at that speed and maintain stability up to 110yds

I know some of the guys here use the .257 at very long range with heavy cast bullets, but I would be surprised if they can take 100 consistent shots out of one tank.
I wish some of the super tuners would say something here.

110yds field target? Wow that is crazy for air rifles! What is the target size?

November 13, 2014 at 10:28 pm

Hi Chris,

Thanks for your interest. I would be very happy with my Condor if I could achieve the following:
– Consistent point-of-impact for Field Target up to 110 yards.
– Power adjustment between 750fps – 1000fps on an 18gr pellet.
– 100 or more shots per fill.

The effect of the bell-curve seems to be much more pronounced at longer distances. Shooting 15 yards from a rest in my garage shows very little shift in point-of-impact. Over 100 yards, you could play join-the-dots.

The Youtube reviews show someone filling the gun to 3000psi and having a good time on the range. This has not been the case for me. An in-tank regulator seems my best option so far as it will be eliminating one of many variables.

The voice in my head tells me that I could flatten out the bell-curve by reducing the number of mechanical variables:
1) Limit how far the valve can travel with a spacer under the top-hat with a plastic washer. I have heard of people using o-rings, but even they seem too flexible.
2) Ensure the hammer strike is powerful enough to open the valve fully (and consistently) every time. This will make the power adjuster useless, but I can live with that. The other
issue with a more powerful hammer strike is the added stress on the trigger mechanism and breech slide. Installing a heavy brass hammer and aluminium breech slide will provide a
more powerful hammer strike without additional stress on the trigger, and (as far as I know), less will be absorbed by the less “springy” aluminium breech slide. The disadvantages of
this are increased recoil and increased lock-time – neither of which help accuracy. Installing a stronger spring instead of a heavy hammer increases the stress on the trigger and
breech slide. Recoil will also be increased, but lock-time will be improved. There are too many options for my tiny brain.

Maybe the shooters who have got it right can post the specs of their tuned rifles.

Cheers,
Simon

November 9, 2014 at 3:55 pm

The bell curve is not a bad thing and is normal for unregulated air rilfes.
If you are looking for consistency, shoot for the pressure ranges where you optimize for number of shots versus fps spread.

It all depends on the application.
If you are using the talon/condor for target shooting competition, maybe a regaulated tank is the solution, but if you are using it for hunting, the variation in fps within the selected range on the curve is probably small enough to keep you in the killzone for a large number of shots.

I do not use a regulated tank even though I do indoor target shooting. I use a micro-meter tank on my talon, and I get a very large number of consistent shots. The small variation in fps per shot is absolutely way smaller than the variation due to my accuracy.
When I say large number I mean I can get 100 shots with a very minimal spread, and then probably another 300 where I can start noticing the drop between 101-200 and 200-300.

Honestly, after the first 100 shots it would be just easy to refill and be as accurate, but I have a pump and I am lazy :rofl:

tell us more about your application maybe we can help you more.

Struggling with Condor/Telon

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