supersonic next step
I have been thinking (I know always bad) I am back on the supersonic air rifle thing again. What I am thinking is small bore rifle barrel to get the correct twist say .17. Use actual rifle bullets to get correct dynamics for supersonic flight. Then get Sean to make me a custom high flow valve. Possibly make it a large bore for maximum flow and then use a breach to taper it down to .17? What you think?
All Replies
😯 😯
How you doing that then??
Maybe its shooting so hard that as the pellet leaves the barrel, its skirt is collapsed in on itself creating a boat tail thus enabling the round to stay stable at the transonic speeds.
Or maybe not.. 😆
rj, check your chrony dude…… 😯
It never is.
my condor is shootinv 22 cal at 1250 fps with 18grn jsb im getting dime sized 5 shot groups at 50 yds this is no bullshit
There’s a guy and his buddies from New Zealand, they are hot rod kings in airgunning…he posts on youtube…people write in to him telling him he’s crazy and falsifying his results, but he’s not…There’s an exanix ar-6 getting 1300fps+….They have something going on down there…and he’s not concerned with going over SS….check him out…I corresponded with him for a bit a few years back on advice for some mods and which stock rifles he liked out of the box….Him name is Ash…can’t remember his handle though…he was getting good accuracy out to insane distances also…good luck…
High there, please excuse me Im new here so dont know the protocol but from what I have seen over the years from you guys I dont think you will get upset?
A friend of mine had a Career which was very easy to get supersonic in either 177 or 22 with what you would call Kodiaks in the USA. How far they remained ss I dont know because we didnt test it, but you are right, still sounded like a deer rifle even with a moderator!
regards
Well, don’t use air alone! Maybe figure out how to use those ‘gas’ cartridges for cordless nailers, then you can shot pretty darn fast. I’m sure there would be some way to do that safely so the can doesn’t explode on ya. I dunno, just a thought really 😉 .
I was thinking accuracy Jerry. The biggest problem is not the speed it self as you point out but being accurate whilst doing so. Hence why I was thinking using a rimfire barrel and projectile may work as they already have the dynamics sorted for this. But as Knifemaker and Synopsys point out there are very real problems when it comes to propelling them with air alone.
Supersonic has been done a bunch of times. If you’re trying to find a supersonic combination that is accurate or just set a speed record, those are two different things with different levels of effort. Back when we were testing the .25 slugs we used a very strong gun and shot some pellets as a comparison. All of the pellets went supersonic. The crow magnums hit 1289 fps. A lot of noise but not much value there….
Thanks for the advice guys. Its always worth running things past you guys before starting. I know big bore big power is the norm but I have done that and got the T-shirt already. Just thinking of trying something a little different. Mad hobby i know 😛
Point is moot. It’s already been done. It’s called the .17Mach2 etc, or .22 Stingers, Maxi, et al. Why go to all the expense if you can just go out and buy it off the shelf in powderburner land?
The only reason supersonic bullets are better than our lead pellets in terminal ballistics is that they impart hydrostatic shock due to their massive velocity, which no airgun pellet can do. The jury is still out on this debate, some people don’t believe such a thing exists, but I for one do know that there is a shock factor that is real and tangible and makes a big difference in taking down game. But the whole point in having airguns is that they are NOT supersonic, are much quieter, and do not use up a nonrenewable resource; anyone can pump up an airgun but not everyone, everywhere, can get exactly the powder and primers and jacketed bullets he needs… but anyone can cast their own lead pellets if need be. So the self sufficiency is there if needed. But I fail to see the need or desire to have a supersonic airgun. If I needed such a thing, I’d just get my 10/22 and use supersonic ammo. Same difference. No shroud will work with supersonic ammo anyway, so you lose any advantage the airgun platform would have given you.
The other advantage would be mitigation of bullet drop due to higher speeds… this might possibly be a consideration if you are regularly shooting targets over 100 yds out, pushing the 200 yd mark. There again, I’d favor the powdergun simply because although in this age of laser rangefinders and easily printed ballistic charts and powerful trajectory programs it is POSSIBLE to hit targets even when your pellet or bullet is nearly in freefall at the end of its trajectory, wind correction or the slightest variation in triggersqueeze or hold may be enough to throw the shot out the window. In the name of a humane kill, that’s not acceptable to me.
Don’t mean to rain on your parade, in this country and on this list you are allowed to do anything you damn well please, within reason; so have at it and more power to you if it floats your boat. The above reasons are simply the thought processes I would use to qualify the need for any project for myself. We are all born with a death sentence over our heads; not a matter of if; only when, where, and how. There will never be enough time to do everything you want before the owl calls your name. So in the time that you have been given here, you have to pick and choose only those things which will yield the greatest satisfaction for you, personally.
Good luck.
aloha,
walt
.17 bullets are jacketed. Way to much friction for such a low pressure starts such as in a PCP.
So your looking to shoot boat tail bullets right? The major problem is that the back of the bullet is not as air friendly as a skirt and concave tail… I also believe that powder burners have a tighter bullet to barrel fit than the typical pellet barrel and less grooves as well…
There are flat tail bullets for .22cal, no sure about .17cal, but these have to retain enough velocity to stay above the s.o.s. before the hit the target or they will destabilize in the transition…
If you can get small quantities it would be worth a try just to see. Have a stiff non-marring rod ready to push the round out if it gets stuck!
It not easy to do in .17. the bore is too small to give good efficiency It is a lot easier to Harv accuracy in .22. Use a .22 lr bbl. and order the bullets sold by North American Arms made for their black powder mini revolver,. The are the same as just about any .22 bullet, but are much cheaper and easier to get in this country.
In Europe, they have several brands. Eley, Rabbit Mag. and a few others come to mind.
However, it is easier and more accurate to stay subsonic, and go to a larger Dia. Caliber. This is exactly why the .223 Air Ranger from Day State has dropped in favor of the new .25 that replaces it. More accuracy, less air used, and more fpe available.
It’s kinda a waist of time to try to turn a air gun into a rim fire when it can be so much more. 😉
Mike
Thanks for the reply dvu0704. I was thinking past this as your normal air rifle barrel and pellet becomes very unstable and unpredictable in the transonic region. My thinking was that the .17 barrel and bullet are already designed from the outset to work under these conditions. It would only take 60ftlb to push a 17gr .17 bullet supersonic and 166ftlb would give you the same as a real HM2 rifle. I suspect somewhere between the two is possible and could be a interesting experiment unless I have missed something. I normally have missed something hence why I ask on here as most of you know a lot more about all of this than I.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
believe it or not the first 10 shots leave the barrel cracking the sound barrier its crazy shit i know my crony is brandnew its a master beta crony red