.223?
Could a .223 AR barrel be use if you used a part of the barrel to form the rifling onto the bullets? I have been thinking about how to get it to work with a Condor. Here it what I was thinking of how it might work. The barrel would be a standard AR .223 24″ or 26″ long. You would need to cut off 2″ or 3″ to use as a form to put the rifling onto the bullet. So you would just line up the bullet into the barrel by lining up with the rifling no chamber. The barrel would be a size that would be easy to adapt to a Condor. And by using a AR rifle barrel and bullets I think that we could get longer range and smaller groups. You could stay with the light 52gr or go all of he way to 85gr. Checking to see what others thought of this? It may or may not work but just thinking. Lets hear what you think of the idea.
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Just seems like the answer to a question that does not exist. More work, for much less practical bullet performance at the velocities obtainable.
But the project might be a bit of fun, so why not.
Knife
Ok let back up to where I started. I started by saying you would cut off a 2 or 3 inch chunk of the barrel to use to engrave the rifling. I reload and resize bullet with a hand press I would use it to engrave the bullets. To index the bullet to go back into the barrel you just turn it till it fits into the barrel. As far as sticking a bullet the barrel can be polish out with JB bore bright. And when you size bullet you use a lube to make them slide threw the die or a chunk of barrel. You could let the lube on and it would work in the barrel as you fire it or lube the barrel with it too. I had planed on building a gun from scratch. My son has some 4500 paintball tanks I can use and I have a scuba tank too. I have a small lathe to use and I was a machinist for 8 years before I was disabled. Also I have been pouring sinker for over 30 years so casting bullet is nothing. And for birds squirrel rabbits and paper a light 223 I think it would work. And a 223 would use less air than a 257. As for wind and hunting bigger game you could go up to the 90grVLD bullets. The 223 has a wide spread of bullet weights to chose from if I find some that do not work I can shoot them in my AR15 or my other 223 rifle.
Knife,
Arrrrrgh! That’s right, the Sinner. I remember now….lol! They shoot CCI 40 gr 22 lr bullets right? Or something like that. I’ve seen their indoor match results.
Boy what i wouldn’t do for a 100 yard INDOOR range. CALIFORNIA’s weather IS NOT THE BEST……….anymore! Especially as of late….lol!
Add to this that even though a higher BC, spire point bullets deflect more in wind when fired sub-sonic.
And even if you did push them thru the AR bbl. every land and grove is slightly different. All the way thru the bbl. So indexing would be very difficult and time consuming. Making life much harder, not more enjoyable. 😆
A jacketed bullet would not expand at our velocities, so not a good hunting round. A spire point makes tiny little needle prick of holes. Not good.
Now you can use a regular .22long rifle bbl. and purchase available .22 lead bullets. This is how the AR from Daystate is set up.
Tofu, The .223 Drummen Sinner is posting some damed fine scores over across the pond, and doing it exactly this way.
This is something I have wanted to try for years. Just need a .22 long rifle bbl, or preferably a .22 bbl. made for .22 shorts. Should work just fine! 😉
Knife
I’m not sure a .223 barrel is the right choice. The current trend in twist rate is 1 in 7 to 1 in 9. Much too fast for a pellet that will probably not go faster than 1100 fps. A .22 hornet barrel is i think 1 in 14 or there abouts which is much closer to the speed you’d probably want. I suppose if you made a ‘sizing’ die out of a piece of the barrel you might just get it to work but you’ll need a stout press to get the bullet through the die. The reason most folks don’t cast .22 caliber bullets is that it is very difficult to get a die that small to fill properly because of the inherent viscosity of molten lead.
Good luck. Let us know how it turns out.
LOL! RC, dude, at first i thought your were serious in telling him it would work……lol! 😆
CUDA,
Not really sure what you are trying to gain here? YOU AIRGUNNERS WANT THINGS TO EASY NOWADAYS….lol! “messy casting”?!
Casting isnt bad at all. What’s the rush anyways.
Back to my point though, how do you plan on REMOVING the COPPER BULLET once its STUCK in the rifling is my 1st question? or did i miss something (i probably did)?
2nd, how would you “INDEX” them. I mean, once you remove the bullet to reinsert it, how will you know where the grooves on the bullet is compared to the bores rifling? Or did i miss something again?
3rd, how do you plan on “FORCING” a jacketed bullet into the rifling in the 1st place? That’s a TON of pressure to do. Ask some of the guys here that tried to force JERRY’s “PURE LEAD” SLUGS into their leads when their barrels leads were never cut for Jerry’s slugs. ITS IMPOSSIBLE!
I have more questions but lets get these 3 outta the way first.
Either way, i don’t really see a COPPER 223 bullet flying down an airgun barrel (ar15) with any power if at all. I WOULD NEVER SHOOT A COPPER BULLET IN ANY OF MY AIRGUNS……..EVER! Well, i take that back. I shouldn’t say NEVER, unless somebody on youtube or the forums prove an AIRGUN can push a JACKETED bullet down a barrel with just HPA and then DO IT WELL, i would give it some serious thought. Other than that, i would NEvER do it…lol!
That would work just fine.
Sure it is sizing it down way to far to obtain any sort of accuracy, and you will have bullet metal trailing off the base because it is way to far to size it.
Velocity will depend on what force it takes you to knock it out of your barrel with a good stiff cleaning rod while you have your barrel chucked up in a vice, but you will have the option to either knock it out the muzzle end or the breech end, depending on where it got stuck.
Mount your scope on the barrel and rig up some sort of a field vice so you can take it with you and make a portable bench to mount it on, line up those crosshairs on a squirrel, shoot the bullet get it stuck, then ram it out with a cleaning rod.
Damn skippy idea. :8:
Good news is that you won’t have the mess of casting or sizing to go through. 😛
Tofasfou, why the hell did we not think about that?
Seriously 223, that will not work. First lead tends to self lubricate and even at that we further lubricate it, second gilding metal requires much more force unless it is solid and has very small driving bands cut into it with a lathe.
But don’t let my chiding you stop you from thinking outside the box, it is innovative ideas that move mountains.
Regards,
Roachcreek
What I was thinking is to use like the 52gr rifle bullet and press the bullet threw a 2 or 3 inch chunk of rifle barrel. To engrave the rifling into the copper coating on the bullet. Then index them into the barrel to shoot them. Not lead bullets but the ones that a AR15 would shoot from a brass case. Once the rifling is engraved in a section of the same barrel as it would be shot out of. That way you just buy the bullet you want. Then press them to engrave the rifling then load and shoot. No hot molding mess and sizing lead bullets. Just once threw the press to engrave the rifling and you are ready to go shooting. Also the rifle bullet BC is better than pellets.
Damn, i replied to this message 2 days ago but it isn’t UP……Arrrrrrrrrgh!
Anyways, i pretty much said the same thing that RC said.
Give it a go. Why not i say. No one will trully know if it will work or not (as far as accuracy goes) cause no one to date (that has posted) has cast bullets for the 223-224-225 diameter bullets and used an AR-15 barrel. And arent the Daystate rangemasters a little different than cast bullets? Just asking as i don’t own them and have never seen them in person.
As i’ve said in the past, ANY BARREL can just about be machined to fit an airgun but it HAS TO BE DONE so we all will know if it works. There is a lot of talk about using the 223 bullets but no one has actually DONE IT (sorry if someone has, i just don’t recall).
Well it is an idea that has been tried in history, it was called the belted bullet. I was a round ball that fit into the grooves of a muzzle loading barrel.
If your willing to go that far, why not try an easier route?
We have had great success using 257 firearms barrels on air guns to shoot 257 firearms bullets, the world has many 257 molds out there to meet our needs, problem is if you have a 25 caliber LW air gun barrel, the off the shelf molds do not work as well unless you size them down to fit, remove chokes and pretty much make your 25 air gun barrel worthless for pellets.
So buy a 224 firearms barrel, fit it to a condor and buy a .224 firearms mold of around 45 to 55 grains and a Lee sizer for it.
Now this is all theory but there is no reason it should not work, it has worked on 257, 308, 410, 452 and 457 and a .284 caliber is in the works, in air guns. When bullet and barrel combinations that were made for each other and air is used as the propellant, from my experience you get better results than using a firearm to launch cast bullets and better results than trying to get a air gun barrel to shoot cast bullets.
Regards,
Roachcreek
Daystate air ranger 80fpe. is built w/ a.223 firearms barrel. Rangemasters solid slugs were designed by Daystate to be used in this rifle & fit in the magazine. 10 shot highpowered repeater.
Is it AR15 barrel and did you engrave the rifling onto the bullets first? And did you use the .223 rifle bullets?
I have one of the early AR 80 fpe. tuned to 100+ fpe.w/ rangmaster 37gr. solid slug @1097 fps..It will shoot quarter size groups all day,if I do my part.
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Tof, there are several .22 pb bullets available now. But some are hard to get here in the U.S.
Here we can get the CCI, and through North American Arms, we can order the 32 gr.? I think that is the weight.
In the UK and Europe they have the Eley, Sp?, the Rabbit Magnum and a few others. So they are a bit ahead of us on the .22.
But it’s pretty much what you guys are doing with the .257, just on a smaller scale. 😉 You know, they are not too much into POWER in the UK. In fact, The peasants aren’t encouraged to have power of any kind there. Cars, knives, physical personal self defense, their lives, and certainly not in GUN’s! 😯 😆
Knife