Talon application for Ratting vs. Mrod
My 1st post on this forum!! Bear with this first paragraph, as I was awaiting getting through the registration process for this forum, and was emailing Anthony Annuuzi. I think he’s deferring this issue to you guys.
I am querying using an Mrod rifle or pistol for ratting. I sent an email to Anthony Annuzzi asking about modding an Mrod with a left-handed bolt, power to 12-15fpe, and accuracy akin to TX200 or S410. Anthony replied: “I would much rather go with the TalonSS. Much lighter and higher shot count than the Marauder. You can go with a factory model or…..”. and then he listed a whole series of mods: “The AAA Condor/Talon has every possible mod for accuracy, power and silence.; Full Tune; Custom Shroud; Custom Hammer; O ring mod; Vented Bushing; Vented Frame; Hammer Slap; ; Options are….: Angled Tank Adapter Installed….$200.00; Trirail…..$35.00; Cocking Knob….$50.00; Fluted Breech …$45.00; Custom tank cover $119.00; Quick Change 3 Speed Tophat Installed….$90.00; Air Force Bipod……$75.00; or Harris Bipod mounted to frame….$185.00.
Me? I didn’t want to create a career for someone doing modding, I just wanted to consider which AG suits my Ratting application the best. (!)
The inherent issue I see limiting the Talon SS for a ratting application is that the scope mounts too high — even with the TTTA device. Some or most anticipated ratting environments are fairly short distances (inside a typical barn). Light is nill and the setup will require night-vision. The short distances, so I have been told, represent a limitation for the Talons due to the height of the scope above the barrel. So, is shooting the Talon SS at short distances (I dunno, maybe 10 to 20 feet) feasible or not?
Also, the second issue with any Talon would be its single shot nature vs. another PCP using magazines. Can any Talon users tell me that practice in cycling/loading the Talon would approach an Mrod in speed for multiple shots? Recall that I am in the dark, literally, here while ratting.
Sorry for the longish post, there has been background leading up to this post. Thanks to all for replies.
Thom
All Replies
I’ve got a lot to learn about ratting, but here are a few things I’ve learned: CO2 works best at warm temperatures, like summer, etc. However, my limited understanding of rat migration is that in the summer, they stay out in the fields where the grain is. Then, in the Fall, they follow the grain into the barn or wherever the livestock feed is. In fall, temperatures drop, and then my CO2 becomes increasingly ineffective. Rats become a problem when they concentrate near livestock — in the fall when temperatures drop — especially at night — since rats are nocturnal. I think I need HPA for ratting.
As far as lasers go, I agree that they would work; but it is unknown whether the prey would be leery of the visible laser light. If I could get an IR laser, pinpoint enough for aiming, then problem solved.
I agree with the CO2 to get very consistent, lower power (FPE) shots out of a Talon SS either in .22 or .177, and you’d be getting about 200 shots out of a charge… but you’d really have to be comfortable with your gun for use in the dark. And certainly a laser can be adjusted for 10-20 ft., but the red light might scare the rats… never tried a laser for that application. The repeater (Mrod) MIGHT be a better choice, but you probably don’t want to be spraying lead through the side or roof of a barn. “One shot, one kill” seems like the proper adage for your application and the Talon seems like it would fit the bill with very consistent, highly accurate shots.
I have shot my Talon SS .22 with both CO2 and air and have settled on the compressed air format for my use; both formats provide consistent results.
Good luck.http://www.talonairgun.com/forum/posting.php?mode=reply&f=1&t=27329#
If the short ranges are a problem with a talon i would put a laser on it if you have trouble with mil dots. I think a .177 talon on C02 would be a perfect rat gun.
Have you considered either gun in .177 instead of .22? I have a 25 M-Rod, and two Talon SS’. One of the Talons I switch between 177, 22, and 25, the other stays 22 so far, as it has an 18 inch barrel. A Talon SS in 177 tuned down to the 12 Ft.Lb. range with a laser for close up shooting would work, reloads will be slightly slower than the magazine fed gun, but a pellet holder that straps to your tank help speed things up. This is also a short, light package, if the 177 M-Rod weighs in even close to my 25 M-Rod, that would be another consideration, and you would want to tune it for maximum number of shots, which should keep it in the power range your looking for. So, there are pros, and cons for both platforms, maybe also consider what else do you want to do with the gun? If hunting larger game animals, or pests might be in the future, you can always get a spare barrel for any Air Force gun, and even a spare bottle if yu need a hot setup for maximum power. Just some more things to consider.
Casey
Will a single shot be as fast as a repeater. Well no. 😆
Where the talon will excell, is it is very fast to change the power!
And yes, they are very accurate. I have mine tuned to shoot under 1/2″ at 50 yards.
At rat range, that is shoot the eye out. 😈 😆 accurate!
For no pass throughs, I think I would go with a flat point, and Very loooow energy. Flat points can be very accurate at short range, and low fps. 😉
KnifeMaker
You state “accurate enough”. Hmmm, the ratting videos I have watched were done with AGs with FANTASTIC accuracy. I just watched another series last night, and the gun used was the HW100 — this is a $1500 gun! Those pellets were going precisely where the crosshairs were aimed — which is required for a clean kill. Since these vids were done in the UK — all power levels were 12fpe. Am I being silly in thinking that I can get that pinpoint accuracy with a tuned M-rod or Talon — costing far less?
I absolutely will require that the AG I use will be 12-15fpe.
Thom
I think that for ratting part of the issue is controlling the damage & pollution/poisoning of the barn/environment. Should a pellet miss or pass through a rat, one must consider — does the lead pellet then end up in the farmer’s livestock’s food? This would be bad. I really need that lower 12-15fpe power level — I’m trying to keep the pellet within the rat after a clean kill.
OTOH: has anyone had great accuracy with alloy pellets? If so, which ones?
Thom
M’rods in .25 have Green Mountain bbls. Not L/W. But they are very good. 😀
barrel.s are choked. Not chocked. A chock is somthing you put in front of a tire to keep a vehicle from rolling. 😆 😉
Thanks for your reply — I have corrected my post.
Can you suggest a good source for learning Mil dots? I have seen very complex treatments of this topic, and was put off.
No one has yet proposed that the Talon-with-practice can load fast enough to keep pace with magazine-fed AGs. Comments?
Thom
Once you learn your mil. dots, short range is NO problem. :8:
M’rods in .25 have Green Mountain bbls. Not L/W. But they are very good. 😀
BBl.s are choked. Not chocked. A chock is somthing you put in front of a tire to keep a vehicle from rolling. 😆 😉
I realize what forum we are on but my choise would be the .25 M rod. Plenty accurate enough for close range ratting and lots of power 16 good shots (unless you really have a rat problem that is good)
Maybe you can laser them, I have never hit anything up close, with an AF, except with laser, I have a Hammerli RWS 850 air magnum, converted to hpa, for my night shooting. It works, but not closer in, if you get the right scope for up close and the right light, you should be able to pick them off with the Talon, but then your loading up all the time. I would choose the Benji again or another multi shot.
I’m not sure yet what the night-vision requirements might be. I need to focus on the gun first. If the single-shot becomes frustrating, or if short distances == misses, then the Talon will be a problem that no night vision system will resolve. My ideas for night vision are not the uber-$$$ types, just the right IR light & Dig. camera.
The lingering issue with Mrod appears to be the .22 barrels. If you get a good one all is fine. It appears (after reading way too much about this) that the Mrod barrels may not be choked properly to engage rifling twists near the muzzle end. For any Talon, this is not an issue, as all Talons use LW barrels. Note: The .25 Mrod uses LW (or Green Mountain ?) barrels, the .177 Mrod folks don’t seem to be complaining much, but the .22 Mrod barrels seem to be an issue for some.
Thom
If using a night vision scope, you’ll have to have it up higher due to the adptr to scope, I would go Mrod, with tactical stock.
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Casey
I have been away from this forum for awhile because I was leaning towards Mrod for ratting. Now my thinking has changed based on my understanding of two things: The Condor SS already has the 18″ bbl; and it is soundproofed as well or better than Mrod; and that one responder in another forum stated that he could load & fire his Talon/Condor in 5 seconds in the dark using the foam pellet holders.
Those two issues have shifted my attention back to the (now) Condor SS. Justification: AF told me that a Talon SS w 12″ bbl will provide 10fpe from the MM-tank. So, my thinking goes that the 18″ bbl would be about right for the 12-15fpe with MM-tank I need; and the Condor SS already has the highly-muted 18″ bbl!
I’ve always had it in mind as well that the Talon/Condor approach would be far easier to change calibers than the Mrod. I also think .177 is best for rats; but with Mrod I was leaning toward .22 due to other tasks handled best there — still maintaining flexibility of usage if I had only one caliber and one gun to own. .22 is the worst caliber for Mrod — something to do with barrel suppliers — so if I went Mrod — kiss another $200 goodbye for an LW bbl! What use do I get out of the original Mrod bbl? Zip. With AF, caliber changes are easily done — as you stated, and although it still costs me about the same for another bbl; I can maintain the other caliber for other uses.
As far as magazine vs. Single-Shot: OK, here I sit in a barn in the dark surrounded by rats — all my Mrod mags are now empty. Do I want to try and reload M-rod magazines here? NOT! For the $1500 HW100, magazine reloading in any environment is possible — and their 14-shot mags only cost ~$15 each — but I digress. I would require $150-$200+ if I were to get enough M-rod magazines for a night’s work (estimate). But if I could train myself to cycle the Condor SS in 5 secs, then I could pre-load foam inserts with an entire tin of pellets, and just keep shooting! With the MM-tank’s higher shot count, it might be possible to go w/o a refill for an entire night’s work. If I did need a refill, I also have more options with AF — I can get another MM-tank changeable with a quick spin; with M-rod, I would require a Scuba tank — heavy if cheap, pricy if carbon fiber. With AF, “Ben” and “Willard” had better watch out!
Thoughts?