Talon SS – Farce or Force: Bottle Valve Troubles

“To bad you did not think to use it in the first place since….”
In the first place?
So I get a new gun and then I am expected to assume the responsibility to closely examine, QC and test all the fasteners to be sure they are sound?
Why the hell should I have to LockTite a gun I paid nearly 600 bucks for? On any of the fasteners? Sounds like an invitation to litigation to me, and perhaps I should investigate that.
I would think the factory has the responsibility for insuring that ALL fasteners are duly secured, be they threaded or otherwise.
Besides, this problem was well disguised inside the air bottle involving an essential-to-operation valve assy. In what universe can AirForce expect or assume that the guy who buys the gun is required, or knows, to disassemble a NEW bottle (with no instructions) to find out whether or not the parts are fitted up correctly? AirForce should simply sell a kit if that’s their intent, and allow the buyer the privilege of smithing the gun. I know I’d have done a better assembly job.

As for the color of fastener anaerobe …. you should investigate this for yourself. There’s a huge difference in what strength the color suggests and the appropriate applications for that color. Rather important…. don’t you think?

BTW for those who are simply interested in facts, observations and information rather than hubris:
UPDATE:
-750+ shots since rebuild. Accuracy is reliable and better than when I bought the gun.
-There is a definite connection between the self-disassembling bottle valve and loss of accuracy combined with fewer shots per fill.
-I’m now getting 25yds and 10 shot groups @ .243 CC Basically one hole as my gun is .22. And it does this maybe 98% of the time. Fliers and cold weather effects are just part of life.
-55yds – 10 @ .430 CC. I built a new grip and that probably has accented the ease of shot placement and accuracy.
-It seems a vibration event is happening during the fired shot that establishes the exact required frequency to enhance the loosening of threaded fasteners all over the gun. Could be as simple to fix as applying a weight at some point to dampen that vibe. Maybe it’s bottle valve bounce or the hammer hit or both. Dunno. This needs experimentation that I am NOT prepared to or have the desire to accomplish. I’ll just manage my gun over time and be sure to inspect it regularly. It’s not the only gun I shoot.
-My hunt buds have now been introduced to crow parmigiana. MMMmm tasty! Want some more whine with that? (pun intended)

CA ALERT:
750+ rounds – ABSOLUTELY NO cyano burn evidence, explosions, fires, pellets pretending to be tracers, flames out the barrel crown (which would be cool no doubt), shrapnel or incendiary actions of any kind. So it’s safe to conclude that Rapid Fix holds delrin to stainless without any ill effects inside a Talon SS air bottle.
Caveat- in one string of 20 shots, I tried to load and shoot as fast as I could in an attempt to build heat. Nothing to report.

I in no way or means endorse or recommend that you disassemble your gun. I repaired mine solely based upon an immediate need, financial priorities, because I like being resourceful and am curious about mechanical things.

I use Green not blue. Both thick and thin. Blue is the bottom feeder of screw holding goop. Blue is good for eyeglass screws and toys.
If the CA reaches kindling temp in side the bottle, then how come that same temp doesn’t affect the delrin pin … especially on the pin’s thin sections and edges? That high of temp would definitely telegraph its presence onto the plastic part. I would think one might even see evidence of a heat signature that high on the back side of pellets and traces of melted pellet on the edge of the breech.
I find that CA burn scenario to be absurd. Any gas flow would never come into direct contact with the adhesive unless the glue was applied by the gob-it-on method (which makes for a weak joint anyway). What little adhesive that’s required is buried in the pin’s pocket with no glue surface exposed to the flow. The flow would have to heat the TH stem up to flash temp before the glue would start to smolder. How could that happen???? There’s more than enough time to cool between shots, even with that high a temp … no matter how fast you load. Plus the stem is hollow and probably transfers heat quickly. The gun would have cycle full auto to generate and keep that much heat! I find this burning bottle thing difficult to believe. There must have been some petroleum distillate or other low flash point chemical in that bottle … if the story is true at all. Plus, Rapid Fix is not hardware store CA. It’s designed to tolerate high temps.
I feel confident in my application of CA to prevent further problems …. safely. I was more concerned about uncured adhesive jetting out of the pin socket under the rapid deceleration forces it experiences, and the heinous wee glue droplets generated jamming up a pellet or smearing inside barrel … neither of which has happened.

The stem is splined because that’s the most cost effective way to join the two dissimilar material parts …. just like toy car axles, appliance knobs or electric razor shafts. The best way to make that joint is by part in mold injection of an appropriate resin or a rigid urethane. There would also be zero expansion of the plastic part (from the splines) near the sealing surface. But that would be expensive. My simple addition (subtraction??) of material from the stem splines, by itself, has allowed the plastic to deform over the extra ridges created and hold better than the splines alone. The CA is just safety wire, so to speak.

Never the less, I now have 300 + rounds through the thing and have the performance back. Consistent sub 1.0 groups @ 55 yards from a 12″ barrel is not bad I think.

FOLLOW-UP:
After studying the guts pic above, and using the gun over the last days I have come to this conclusion:
As the large brass fitting towards the inside-the-bottle end of the valve slowly backed out, it changed the rate on the pin spring. The now soft condition of the force returning the valve pin to sealed position allowed the bolt to continually push the valve open for progressively longer times letting more air pass through (also explains why the power adjuster was useless to refine the accuracy). It’s why the TH stem separated from the pin. This turned the gun from a tack-driver to a shot gun. No matter how hard I tried to tune to pellets, their accuracy was doomed due to the minor but constant changes in air pressure and lack of positive shut-off. I’m sure that the cold/warm cycling from car to hunt locations affected the air pressure and added another variable.
In the few days since this rebuild and target tests, I’m getting way more shots per fill and that pleasant knot of holes.
So the three damning pieces of evidence that your valve is deconstructing are, in order of importance:
1 – inability to maintain usual accuracy or group (if you find yourself asking,” What’s with all these lame-ass fliers?” … you’ve probably got a loosening valve)
2 – excessive loss in pressure with each shot – resulting in lower shot count per fill (if you find yourself asking,” Where the hell did all that air go?” …. you’ve probably got a loosening valve)
3 – Power Adjuster makes things worse or has no effect (if you find yourself asking,” WTF is up with this adjuster?” … yada, yada, yada…)

So there, I’m done now.