The 257 Haley, getting it to shoot
This is the first day I have had to really concentrate on alloys, fill pressures, shooting technique and bullets with the .257 Haley.
It has rained and blown all day, as a result my shooting was confined to shooting off the Mercedes, casting bullets from 4 different alloys, shooting those bullets sized to .258 and shooting them as cast.
I shot off the Mercedes just holding the rifle in my hands without bags to start with until I saw a vast improvement that needed bags to wring out the full potential.
I also switched to a different pair of scope rings, the clamping design of cheapie chinese ones would not allow the mounting of my Dyotat side focus parallax wheel, so I had ordered some Leupold split rings from Midway and they came in today so I installed them.
I have two differnet molds I am using, the Lyman 257420 and the RCBS Cowboy mold.
Before I sent the rifle off to Jack Haley to try different springs, the RCBS bullet was the best, but today and yesterday I had trouble with the RCBS bullets. In retrospect I think it is having issues with my muzzle break before I sent it to Jack I did not shoot it with the Muzzle brake because it was clipping, maybe because it is longer.
I started off using 4400 PSI for all fills, with pure lead and both bullets. The Lyman bullets shot inch 3 shot groups at the 40 yard or so range I have and the RCBS bullet shot all over and demonstrated tipping with oblong holes.
I also found with pure lead I was only getting around 20 shots before needing a scrubbing with a bronze brush and bronze wool.
I then tried 40-1, both sized and unsized and nothing really changed,groups were the same and velocity was the same with the Lyman going 1135 and the RCBS moving at 1060.
That load also leaded badly, so after cleaning I started lubing with ATF.
Then I exchanged a few pmg’s with Cedric over some HPed 257420 Lyman bullets he had sent me that seem to be lost in the mail. Cedric brought up the subject of leading and he had also posted about it on one of my threads, so I decided to take Cedric’s advice and go for a harder alloy. Pure lead had worked fine in my TSSS at up to 900 FPS, but pushing along at 1135 FPS, the Haley .257 definately does lead.
Next I tried Lyman #2 alloy. That is regarded as being a little hard for airgun use. The Lyman bullets dropped out at .260-261 and weighed 4 grains less at 70.5, I only cast a few of the tipping RCBS bullets and did not weigh them.
The harder bullets shot the same velocity as the softer ones despite being lighter, I think because it is harder to push them down the bore, but the 257420 went into .80 of an inch, the RCBS bullets still tipped.
After that I decided to try a custom blend of alloy. I came up with 97.5% lead, 1.25% tin and 1.25 % Antimony. Cast of this alloy the 257420 weighs 72.3 average and is .259 when it drops from the mold. I sized them to .258 and shot them with a 4400 PSI fill, and but this time I tried 5 shot groups just to see how they grouped.
I got a .90 inch 5 shot groups with this alloy wuthout bags, I then set up the bags and got serious.
Problem was I was running out of air, so I only filled to 4000 PSI for my next group. Instantly my group went to .53 for 5 shots. The next 5 shot group I topped off at 4400 PSI with a fresh tank, that group was .75 inches for 5 shots. The last group of the day I tried 4000 PSI again and that group was a nice .47 inches for 5 shots. One of those .50 groups started with 3 shots in one small hole, if I had elected to stop at three shots, they would have been in the teens, the other group had the first threee shots going into 1/4 inch.
It was getting dark so I did not chrony this alloy and I was tired tired, but I also feel damn good about what I learned today about my rifle and that was:
It needs bags of course to get the best accuracy,
It likes a harder alloy, harder alloy and ATF has given me close to 75 shots without cleaning so far,
It likes a 4000 PSI fill,
The last thing is I am really liking this Haley.
Even with a 4000 PSI fill you have to consider that over 1000 FPE combined went thru these 5, 25 caliber holes.
Regards,
Roachcreek
All Replies
I took off the muzzlw break on the Haley and tried it with both bullets.
I only had 7 of the RCBS bullets, and after cleaning the first 2 out of 3 tipped and then the next 4 went into a 1/2 inch group with the next 4.
But the groups was 3 inches high and 3 inches to the rigt at 40 yards.
Next I shot some 257420 bullets, the were also 3 inches high and 3 inches right at 40 yards.
Clearly the muzzle break is effecting poi.
The hole in the muzzle break was .277, so I drillled it out to .285 and I will see if that makes a difference in poi.
I realize that the wieght of the muzzle break will cause some droop in that long barrel, but it should not be 3 inches to the right.
BTW, once I resighted in again, I am right at optically perfect for windage and only 5 MOA off of optically perfect for elevation.
Edit:
I just shot two three shot groups at 40 yards, one with the break and one without.
With the break the group was 2.5 inches low and 1 inch to the left.
So much for the muzzle break.
RC
Probably never.
The die was cast for me when I bought that AA S410 Carbine from Gary.
Altho I did not keep it very long, it showed my what a higher end gun could do for precise repeatable day after day shooting.
Then the XPRanger and FX Royale 500 carbine came along and the AF platform which had first turned into the 25 LBT then the Dyotat Talon SSS just whet my appetite for more power.
Then that dang RJ bought the Haley.257 and I was hooked.
Right now my Dyotat TSSS is a great medium range slugger, and pretty soon I will sell it, the mold and the sizing die to someone, although it needs a 21 inch 257 barrel to fit into that TSSS long frame to reach full potential.
My next air gun purchase will probably be a Booster pump and another Haley, wether it be a 58 muzzle loader or a 30 caliber I am not sure.
Perhaps Doug is ready to trade me the TSSS for the Booster pump I sold him. 😛 But that would break a certain persons heart on this forum that the TSSS has been promised to and Doug has become fond of the booster I think.
So bottom line, I doubt I will spend more money on another AF build.
But who knows.
RC
I miss that rifle sometimes
Did somebody mention an AF bull pup? 💡
I think I know who that tsss has bee promised to., and besides, giving it back to Doug would be like giving Zeus a lightning bolt.
🙂
Joe,
Probably never.
The die was cast for me when I bought that AA S410 Carbine from Gary.
Altho I did not keep it very long, it showed my what a higher end gun could do for precise repeatable day after day shooting.
Then the XPRanger and FX Royale 500 carbine came along and the AF platform which had first turned into the 25 LBT then the Dyotat Talon SSS just whet my appetite for more power.
Then that dang RJ bought the Haley.257 and I was hooked.
Right now my Dyotat TSSS is a great medium range slugger, and pretty soon I will sell it, the mold and the sizing die to someone, although it needs a 21 inch 257 barrel to fit into that TSSS long frame to reach full potential.
My next air gun purchase will probably be a Booster pump and another Haley, wether it be a 58 muzzle loader or a 30 caliber I am not sure.
Perhaps Doug is ready to trade me the TSSS for the Booster pump I sold him. 😛 But that would break a certain persons heart on this forum that the TSSS has been promised to and Doug has become fond of the booster I think.
So bottom line, I doubt I will spend more money on another AF build.
But who knows.
RC
So when are you going to start this project? Come on, get moving already! 😆
Joe,
I think the way to do this is to buy a 4500 PSI paint ball bottle as mall in diamerter as you can find, if there are any, put a regulator on it, attach it to the bottom rail, which could easily be done with scope rings altered to attach to both the bottle and the rail.
Then you take your etac or angled adapter that most of us have and instead of haveing a gauge, just screw the line into the etac or attach it with a femal Foster fitting and a checked valve male fitting.
If you can’t find a 4500 PSI bottle that small in diameter, just use a 3000 PSI bottle and make a cap with a 1/4 inch threaded port to screw the line into.
Replace the forearm with this assembly as it is no more unergnomic than the forearm that is on there now.
It alo makes a fine start as a Bullpup. Then if you put a Timney trigger right where the sear is now, put a Wok guard on it and you have most of the bullpup.
When you get that Guppy bottle just fill it to 3000 PSI attach it to your etac and see how many shots you get. I have done it with mine when it was a conventional Condor, but I forget what the count was.
RC
I keep thinking I need to have you make me a up a 257 21 inch barrel that will fit in my TSSS tube with the end cap, but with the Haley that might be put on the back burner indefinately.
One other thing I have been interested in is a forearm mounted tank that is connected to the regular butstock tank to give double the air volume.
Just takes money to satisfy a fertile but sick mind doesn’t it? 😈
Merry Christmas Doug, thanks for all the stuff you have done on my guns and knives for me this year my friend.
Regards,
Roachcreek
I thought of that forearm tank too, especially since evanix offered the CF one on their Monster (at least I think I recall it being CF). Imagine a 4500 cf tank regged down to whatever output you want into your rear tank!
Gun works good. I get 10 shots over 200 fpe with 120 gr. Making a setup so I can use higher pressure.
I had the barrel made because I wanted to go longer. I have a 32″ 1-14 4 groove barrel and frame ready to go. Just need time to do make all the pieces.
Merry Christmas to you and thanks for all the support.
Did you get that 308 valve working consistantly yet Doug?
I keep thinking I need to have you make me a up a 257 21 inch barrel that will fit in my TSSS tube with the end cap, but with the Haley that might be put on the back burner indefinately.
One other thing I have been interested in is a forearm mounted tank that is connected to the regular butstock tank to give double the air volume.
Just takes money to satisfy a fertile but sick mind doesn’t it? 😈
Merry Christmas Doug, thanks for all the stuff you have done on my guns and knives for me this year my friend.
Regards,
Roachcreek
I already had a 1-14 .308 barrel made for my .308. I just have to find time to build the gun. I had the mandrel made to make the barrel.
Yesterday I shot only 4 groups and just got too damn wet and cold to shoot.
THe first two groups were with the RCBS bullet cast out of the 75% lead 25% Lyman #2 and they still tipped.
The next two groups a 5 and a 3 shot group are shown here using the 257420 Lyman bullet.
The 5 shots group shows the perils of a busy reticle at close range, or just being old and senile.
The top and side portions of my MOA reticle are in mils with slashes instead of dots. The first slash is 1 mil and from there on they go to 1/2 mil slashes, it works great for holding in the wind and for my 2.1 inch rise in bullet path to 90 yards and then the moa takes over out to 250 yards where I will hold on the 24 MOA mark.
At 40 yards, the first mil slash is the POI, I shot 2 shots at 1 mil and the 3rd shot I mistakenly used the 1.5 mil and got this low shot and realized what I did as soon as I hit send, the next two shots were with the correct 1 mil slash mark.
The three shot group which is 1/4 inch was shot with the correct mil slash.
Then my boney ass got cold and I went back into the warm house!
Today I am hoping for some still clear weather to try 150 yards and perhaps even 265 or 285 yards if the weather gods will smile upon me.
This illustrates the common theme here, “if I do my part they all go into small groups.”
RC
Next BIG thing coming out of the Haley shop with the Jon Bowman inspiration is a fast twist 308.
Jack told me yesterday that Jon is getting over 400 FPE with 240 grain bullets.
When he gets that one going it will be right on the heels of the 300. Whisper.
Hard to type this morning my arms and hands are shaking, being old and all, plus right now I am doing pushup sets of 75 between posts, today I will break 4200 pushups for the month of December, hoping to get 5000 for the month.
Time to do another.
RC
Lookin good RC!!! keep the info coming! I’ll soon be putting my order in!!! 😈
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Sounds like your threads are not on center with the hole in your barrel.
I just built a prototype shroud for my .25 and first baffle is .272″ and the other 2 .282″.
Take your calipers and measure the wall thickness of the barrel and see if it’s thicker on one side.