The humble but forgotten .177cal 4.5mm
Moderator Edit: A few of us touched on this subject a little in several other non related threads but I think this topic deserves its very own ponder page..
I have watched the trend over the last few years in the states of people leaning toward the .25 cal for everything from coyotes to sparrows to even back yard plinking and watched the quarter bore grow in popularity considerably.. I have often watched guys who only plink in their urban back yards and pop the odd starling etc use the .25cal and add 6 feet of suppressor extensions etc just so they don’t bother their cranky tree hugging neighbours..
I think to myself… “why not just get the .177?”
I have a countryside property loaded with critters and no close neighbours to worry about upsetting and yet I’ll still reach for my .177s 99% of the time, whether it be for pest removal or just plinking fun.
The only advantage I see in slinging a 1/4 inch of lead around it for getting a little more energy on pests or targets past 100 yards. Even then “my” .25cal is normally bypassed for my .22 cals.
The JSB 10.34gr, 13.43gr and 16.20gr .177 pellets can be very effective to about 120yards on small game if you have the power plant to push them to the 950-1050fps mark in some cases even better than a .22cal..
I have taken many starlings out to that range with the 10.34gr JSB pellets and the 10.5gr Crosman Premiers and they retain plenty of killing power.
Dont under estimate this sweet little cal.. and dont believe the “.177s are no good in the wind” rumour untill you have tried the heaver pellets at higher speeds.. Things have changed a lot in the world of airguns in a very short time and with companies evolving with higher power, faster twist rates, and heavier pellets, the possibilities are still expanding.
I will copy and shift some of the scattered discussion to this thread for all to catch up on..
Your thoughts my power hungry brothers? Regards, Wingman
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Hi all and thanks Secoda
Your recent post says it all.
Two of us have just got our .22 crickets and will in time submit our noise readings. Would’ve been nice if one of us had bought a .177, maybe next time. They certainly are flying out of the shops though.
Ciao
It depends on several variables. I don’t see the flyers much speeding up the .25 or especially .30 caliber JSB domed pellets. My backyard range limits me to an extreme range of about 70 yards with heavy woods around my house and most shots are under 60 yards (under 50 yards for that matter) so it is a non-issue for me anyways except on a rare shot (I have a dead tree I can see the top of that is 105 yards where sparrows hang out). Some of the other variables are the pellets, barrels, receiver flex (AF guns) and even velocity spread/consistency. I have shot .25 Kings out of my R3 right at 1000 fps and flyers rarely occur unless there is a bad pellet. The standard LW barrels on my AF guns are hit and miss. Crossing the sound barrier or getting near it is another story with the diablo shaped pellets. The shuttlecock design is also sensitive to inconsistencies in the pellets. JSB now spends a lot of time developing their newer pellets more carefully they told me and pay attention to things like longitudinal CG and its effect on stability at various ranges. I have been querying them on the new .30 cal Predators which are just being tooled and the R&D effort was pretty long to get them right in most guns. They have to test all of the different barrels and try to reach a compromise. (The .25 Predators which were developed much more recently are superbly accurate in most barrels.)
As Ted says, generally, I would keep the velocity for .22 JSB domes in the 870-910 or so FPS range to avoid issues and would say that is probably true for most light to medium .177 pellets as well although both may still do well at much slower velocities. If you try to shoot the heavy .22 JSB Monsters 25.4 gr I have found them not stable at nearly any range or velocity in all of my .22s and the .177 or .22 Predators are real finicky as well. Also, the issues are sometimes already occurring at the slower speeds but they are exaggerated at the faster velocities but not really eliminated (when does a flyer become a flyer) when you slow them down. Right now the .177 JSB Monsters at 13.4 gr seem real stable and accurate at my longest 50 yard range from a bench rest at 1050 FPS and I don’t have a clue what may happen at 75 or 100 yards and up to a point don’t even care beyond 75 yards or so. I would need to go to my local gun range to even test that unless I shoot up the street. 😉
Noise is another issue. The .25 26 gr Predators at 915 FPS (50 FPE) and .30 45 gr JSB domes at 875 FPS (75 FPE) sound just like little firecrackers going off when they hit large birds solidly and guts fly. Not sure there is a way to make that part stealthy but its nice when they (or the neighbors) don’t know what is happening or where it is coming from so making the gun quiet still helps a lot. The heavy .177s still make a pop at 900 FPS on impact and are pretty loud at 1050 and 33 FPE on impact.
BTW – I can’t remember crap either. I have a 3×5 index card for every gun with the test results. Best pellets and speeds. I have about 50,000 pellets of maybe 25 different ones so there is no way I could remember even what pellet to use in what gun after it sits for a few months except for the .30 since there is only one pellet. 😆
I have shot nearly twenty squirrels and about 25 chipmunks in the last month and most were with the .177 Compact Cricket with JSB 10.34s at 900 FPS 19 FPE. All have been head or heart/lung shots. I can say that I have not noticed any difference in killing power between that and my .22 Cricket at 33 FPE. 33 FPE ME is just overkill on a squirrel out to about 50 yards or so IMO although most shots were under 40 yards.
Hi Secoda
What is the accuracy like at 1000fos MV at say 70,80,90 and 100 yds? According to Sir Ted of holdover fame , there should be a higher proportion of flyers and wobblers at the longer ranges. If the accuracy deteriorates it negates the extra FPE on target. E,g if only say 2FPE is needed to kill and lower FPS gives say 6 FPE on target why lose shot count etc etc. The gun will of course be noisier. Has anyone taken sound readings at say the muzzle, 25 yards distance, left of LOS , right of LOS and under LOS?
Then repeat at 100 yards.
If firing of course at live quarry the report noise spread could be important. Stealth kills are surely better. However the smack of pellet on target as we all know is substantial especially if a bone hit. So may cancel any report noise advantage.
What is your opinion please?
I must confess that I have enough trouble hitting the target with the same make,weight and pellet characteristics without introducing lots of other variables ie weight ,BCs etc. I cannot remember them all. Maybe age?
I was never that impressed with AF accuracy consistency until it had the Maddog stock. It also has the trigger Supersear and is set at about 8 oz. :biggrinn: I have various barrels including a 12″ .177 which is in it and a 12″ .25. I have longer ones for my Condor.
looks a lot like mine 🙂 24″ .20 barrel, 12″ .22 and 18″.25 barrels
Thanks – I machined some brass parts for it and they highlight it pretty well being all black (shoe, knob, and shroud end cap). The Maddog stiffens it up nicely (easy Hoot: ) making it very accurate.
😯 Nicely tricked-out Talon there SECoda !
~ GKU
:biggrinn: I found a home for the .177 JSB Monsters. My Stubby with the .177 LW barrel and the Maddog stock. Right now I have it pushing them at 1050 FPS and it has nearly a 500cc tank on board. It is doing about 5/8″ group at 50 which is pretty good at that velocity. That’s 33 FPE. 😯 it has a Hawke SWT 6-24×42 MD and a 10″ R&L Shroud so it is fairly quiet too. :4: It’s very comfortable and pretty small. I upgraded to extra-high rings and the cheek weld is vastly improved. I had one ricochet and it sounded like a 22LR ricochet at that speed. :suprisedn:
It’s a mean machine. 👿
😆 My heavy woods prevent most shots beyond about 70 yards off the covered back deck 😛 but for tall grain bins it is just the ticket. 😉
I see some of the reviews saying the they like a little faster velocity.
Yup.. they are a good way to get .22 power from a .177 for sure.. best to get their velocity up to 1000fps as close as your gun can get to that then manually adjust the BC in chairgun to real life figures shot over a chrony at longer ranges.. I think you will be pleasantly supprised..
Lucky for you it was only Keyser that couldnt read my “for Codas eyes only warning” so the 13.43gr pellets shouldnt sell out state side this week at least.. 
Ok – I tried the Monsters briefly and I get about 860 FPS as set and 22 FPE up from 19 FPE with the 10.34s at 900 FPS. I just cranked the HST up to get 875 FPS 23 FPE. Overall the accuracy at 50 yards seems identical to the 10.34s (about 1/2″)but they do hit noticeably harder. Probably a regulator adjustment is necessary to get it up to the 900 FPS/24 FPE which would results in a slight shot count drop on the Compact. That’s a 26% increase in energy over the 10.34s. 😆 I guess then it will nearly skewer squirrels from end-to-end. I have about 10k 10.34s so I wont make that change for now. 😯 The Chairgun Pro DB also shows a slight drop in BC for the 13.43s. from 0.031 to 0.028. Despite that it looks like you can extend the range a bit more with the Monsters with a higher energy level and hold 10 FPE at impact out to 100 yards where as the 10.34s at 900 FPS get about 70 yards at 10 FPE.
In my 50,000 pellet inventory I have one tin of those .177 JSB Monsters I have never opened. 🙂 It may be time,.
There are some things to consider that are variables that make absolute statements about BC and pellet performance impossible to validate.
There is no such thing as an absolute and invariable ballistic coefficient (B. C.)
Ballistic coefficients are only one factor in pellet selection for different kinds of shooting.
A ballistic coefficient can change with reference to (1) altitude, (2) temperature, (3) atmospheric pressure, and (4) relative humidity.
Ballistic coefficients are measures of a pellet’s relative efficiency.
Ballistic coefficients are not measures of a pellet’s “goodness.”
Higher B.C.s do not necessarily make a pellet “better.”
Lower B.C.s do not necessarily make a pellet “worse.”
Environmental conditions can effect BC and change one shooter’s perspective vs another. The nominal BC of the .25 King is .0360. BC is only one factor to consider in the end trigger time and experimenting will provide the best outcomes.
Your right there Coda.. my Steyr LG110 and P12 in .177 both love the 10.34gr Edguns (JSB’s) and smack starlings and sparrows just as hard as the .22 does and shoots flatter too.
I have never seen the “wind sensitivity” with the .177 that everyone complains about.. my guess is that school of thought comes from the days of shooting slow spring gun twist rates with 6gr-8gr pellets at 600fps to 800fps..
Shooting the heavy .177 pellets at just under mach 1 shoot like lasers in my guns and I love the .177cal..
Now Im going to share another secret with you.. just you, no one else so everyone else stop reading now..
If your gun likes the 10.34gr JSBs it should also like the 13.43gr Exact Monster Diabolo’s.. crank them up to 1000-1050fps and go smack some feathers and prepare to be shocked!
they have a higher B.C than the JSB 20 cal pellets of the same weight so makes the .20cal kinda redundant.
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Just to blow the caliber war up again : Have any of you guys tried the .177 JSB Exact Beast 16.2 gr ? I´ve had a Tin of those for a couple of months so it´s about time to test them soon. That´s one heavy Pill for a .177. http://luftvapen.e-butiken.se/ammunition/177-45mm/jsb-beast-177
And yes – my .177 Compact shooting 10.34 gr Exact Heavies at 275 mps puts down Pigeons at 40-45 meters (haven´t tried any longer range) without sweating. I have shot several and they all dropped like a sock filled with gravel . All shot either thru breast or from the side thru “shoulder”. A .177 is more than enough to kill a pigeon – without hitting it in the head. Sorry Keyser ! :whistle:
I´m with Coda on this : Every enthusiast should have given a change to shoot a Compact .177. It´s monumentally fun, accurate and surprisingly powerful little Bugger. :4: