Tuning and adjusting the R3 out of the box
Ok, this will be a long post so here goes:
The story begins about a year ago when I got my long 22. R3. First thing I did, as any normal person, was to unscrew the moderator and of course I broke the Oring on the tip of the baffles. I think it was broken in the first place but I don’t like to point fingers. I put it back without it and carried on.
The gun was filled up to 200BAR as I got it, so the next thing was to zero the gun.
After zeroing the gun at 50 meters I decided to chrony it. I read 160-170 BAR on the pressure gauge so I took 5 shots to see where I stand.
The speed was about 900 fps with no more than 8 fps deviation so I was happy with it. Stupid move, if I may say so myself.
There were many shooting sessions for a couple of months and I shot about 1500-2000 of pellets with it.
The accuracy was great to about 50 meters and good above 50, but not good as others on this forum claimed.
One day a cop came to my door and told me that a new law came that says every airgun should be kept in a gun safe at home, and he came to see if owners have those.
I didn’t, so he suspended my license for 6 months and took away the R3 for the same period. He said that I was lucky because I was nice and cooperative , and he didn’t gave me a fine , just a warning. The fine is pretty big in my country. Minimum wage is 250$ and the fine was about 570$ so I guess I was lucky.I now have a gun safe.
As I gave them the gun I first soaked the barrel in Balistol so it can withstand the hard conditions in police armory.
These 6 months I gathered a lot of info from you guys (especially from oldgoat and zocoloco. Thank you!). The plan was to put all this info into use and try to make the gun better and safer when I get it back. I even upgrade it from Hawke to Sightron because I wanted to blame only the gun or myself if anything goes wrong.
Big day came. I got my gun back so I cleaned the barrel. I also disassembled the parts and grease them as I saw in Ed’s assembling videos.
Filed the plate for the ball bearing, to smooth the pass above the edge of the plate.
Image property of Ted(oldgoat)
Almost all screws were VERY tight screwed so I ruined 2 of them even tho I had the wright tools.
One of them I left as it was as I later realized that I had no reason to unscrew it. I hope I will never have to unscrew it.
The other one I had to replace and the search for one started. I put all the screws back but this time I put a little silicone grease on the tip of each one.
I ruined the trigger spring trying to give it enough length so I can keep the nut on the rod all the way unscrewed. I should of known it will never work but gave it a try anyway.
Plan B was to replace it with a stronger one I found, and put “a easy to remove type of glue” on the thread next to the nut because the shots shock kept unscrewing the nut until the bolt wont catch, or worse, the bolt catches but barely, self firing at the smallest shock. It happened twice but thankfully no one or anything was hurt.
As long as I removed the rod, I adjusted it also as I put it back. With it completely off, I screwed it on the hammer side of the rifling just enough to catch it and than begun to screw in until it could begin to screw on trigger side of the rifling. Than kept screwing until those two plates in the picture became almost parallel. Than removed the first trigger screw and screwed in just the second one just enough for 1mm to be visible. I’m pretty pleased with this setting and really recommend it. I damaged the rod coating trying different settings but I think it will be OK.
With the gun back together again, it was time to start a fresh string, this time on a entire fill. 99 shots, to be exact.
BTW, I think Ed fills the guns to 220 because he fills them pretty fast to save time, so by the time they cool they get to 200BAR. I filled very slowly to 200BAR, and even tho the tank didn’t felt worm, the pressure dropped to 195BAR in 5 minutes and stayed that way for 15 minutes so it was a temperature thing not a leak. I really recommend just a slowly 200BAR fill.
1-99 shot string
same string but from 1 to 70
1 to 70: Max=929; Min=874; Average=901; Extreme Spread=55; Standard Spread=11
It doesn’t take much to guess I was not very happy. I now understand why I had 900 fps with little spread on the 5 shots I cronyed the first time.
I was trying to find the ruined screw and it took one month to find one with the wright length, thickness and thread. It was the “slot” type but it does his job.
Before I did a new string I also put the 3 orings on the 3 grooves on the baffles of the moderator.
Image property of Trygve(zocoloco)
I really wish Ed would tell if he recommends to put the other 2 orings on the moderator, or if he later discovered that it does not help at all and we shouldn’t bother.
Zocoloco said that just putting the one on the tip does not help accuracy but dampens the sound a little bit. I’ll tell you that much, with all 3 of them in place the sound INCREASES by at least 5% according to my “ear meter”. If I’m not happy with accuracy I will try different combination of numbers of orings and properly test the decibel levels as well.
BTW, it’s easy to mount them if you grease them with silicon grease and with the help of a toothpick, greased as well. The tube I just cleaned very well but didn’t greased it. I than pushed the tube SLOWLY so I will not damage the orings. I pushed and then screwed so slowly that it took 1 minute for the entire action. I hope the gun was designed that way and I will not have to remove any of them because they affect accuracy.
So the next string was different because of the screw and the 3 orings on the moderator.
1-99 shot string
same string but from 1 to 70
1 to 70: Max=957 ; Min=916 ; Average=934 ; Extreme Spread=41 ; Standard Spread=9
The string looks different but far from being perfect.Those variations does not affect much at lower distances but I think that’s what affects the shots at 50 to beyond.
I think I will invite oldgoat on a 2 weeks vacation to Romania. All expenses covered, of course.
On a serious note, I hated the idea to open the tank and fiddle with the regulator but now I can’t wait to take the bull by the horns and be able to have “894 +- 3-4 fps” as oldgoat set it to. If that 3-4 is the extreme spread, I think that “Doctor Edgun” doesn’t really covers it. Brain surgeon Edgun suits it better.
I now have more than 2500 pellets shot through it so the brake in should be complete.
What do you guys think about all this ?
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Very, very nice info as always. Thank you Ted !
Started to rain so the chrony doesn’t work again. I think I’ll finish the vise testing tomorrow. If that doesn’t help the spread, I’ll start taking off the moderator orings, in different combinations. 😥 and test some more. I wish it would be easier…
Hi Sorin.
I don’t know about doing another video; the last one was very time consuming and I didn’t think that I did a very good job on it. 😳
I have a BSA barrel being fitted for the R3 25 long, 2 LW non choked barrels, a 22 and a 25 for the R3 that should be here any day and I just ordered a Hart custom made .224 center fire barrel blank for the R3 today. I have a bunch of .217” OD bullets from 2 different makers that I will try in the 22 cal LW barrel.
I also ordered a Corbin swaging press along with dies to make hollow based bullets. The hollow base looks like the base of a JSB pellet. I have 2 different nose shapes ordered and I can also make them hollow points.
The thing that I really like about the Corbin setup is that I can change the nose shapes by just changing out punches and I can easily change the bullets weight by screwing the die in or out of the press. These bullets are not diablo shaped, they will be .2240” with a straight side where they contact the bore. The Hart barrel is .2243” across the grooves and .218 bore.
If I can find the time, I will try to do a “Quick and Dirty” video on cutting and polishing the crown and in lead on one of the LW barrels.
To reshape the in lead and crown, I use a 3/8” round, 600 grit stone. I put it in a drill and file the end of it down to a point. I use 3 different angles on the stones.
The crown takes a very steep angle, just a few degrees. I use 2 different angles on the in lead. The first one is around 45 degrees and the second one is around 60. After I recut them, I use a felt cone with a Dremel and polishing paste to polish the cuts up. You can also use a Craytex rubber/abrasive cone to shape and polish the cuts.
I have got in the habit of doing all of my air gun barrels. I can’t really say that the accuracy has improved that much but, it has cut down on the fliers.
When I try a new barrel, if I think that the pellet is taking too much force to be inserted into the barrel, I will re do the in lead. I wrap the barrel in a towel and clamp it in a vice. I then take the 45 degree stone and rotate it back and forth until I have cut a 45 degree angle in the breech end. I rotate the stone back and forth so it won’t develop burrs in the rifling. I then go to the 60 degree stone and do the same. If done correctly, the 45 degree cut will center the pellet in the bore and the 60 degree cut will then guide it into the bore. I don’t remove much material; the length of both cuts is around 2mm total. When I am happy with the shape of the in lead, I then polish it.
I then go to the crown and reshape it with the 15-20 degree stone and polish it.
I then push a pellet into the breech end of the barrel about an inch and then push it back out. If I feel the pellet dragging while it is being inserted or if I can see any small chunks of lead hanging off of the pellet (I use a 20 X jewelers loupe to check) I know that I have a burr some where in the cuts that I have made.
If that is occurring, I push a pellet about 1/32” past the cut and then fill the bore with coarse valve grinding compound. I then push the pellet back out. This step can take 20-30 pellets and a lot of valve grinding compound. After pushing a pellet back out of the barrel, I put a cloth patch in the other end of the barrel and push it thru with a wood dowel. I don’t want the next pellet to push any remaining valve grinding compound into the bore and grind it down. I just want to get rid of the burr.
I do the same thing for the muzzle end. The muzzle end is easier to check for burrs. I use the wood dowel to slowly push a pellet out of the crown. If I feel resistance when the head, and then the skirt exits the barrel, I know that I have a burr there. The pellet should exit the bore smoothly. If I feel the pellet “catch” it is time for the VGC. I push a pellet in from the breech and stop it just before it gets to the reshaped crown. I then fill the bore with the VGC and push the pellet out. I run a patch thru the barrel, from the breech end, before I put the next pellet in.
I don’t know if any of this is needed. I can’t say that the accuracy has improved to a noticeable degree but, it has cut down on the fliers.
I like to play with my Edguns when I can’t shoot them!
I forgot to tell you that I shoot only 18.1 JSB and I clean with dry patches before each string.
In the morning was very cloudy and the chrony didn’t work but I had other things to do for the gun. Like the level level level 😉
Around 11:00 the sun came so I begin the adjustments on the HST. After 2 shots the chrony showed 8A7 on the screen. I ran to get the chrony instructions to see what’s wrong. As I read about the failure I raised my eyes just to see the battery on the chrony died. :banghead: 8A7=BAT
Put it to charge and hoping the sun doesn’t go away again. After half of hour I put the battery back to the chrony, fired 10 shots to adjust the HST to 885.
I fill the tank to 200BAR again and begin the new string. After the first shot the battery died again. :banghead: I wasn’t so upset in a long time.
Luckily I’m really smart and modest and figured out a way around the stupid battery.
OK, the shot string 1-90 and the pressure is shown by the numbers in red.
Same string 1-65
Max=898; Min=868; Average=883; Extreme Spread=30; Standard Spread=6,4
Better but not good. The average is pretty good and I don’t see a bell curve so I don’t know how to adjust further.
I was shooting from my hand, and in an 40-45 degree angle to be able to by-pass the frame of the window. I think that’s another variable that needs to be taken care of. I need a gun vise so I can have the same distance and angle with every shot. Maybe some pellets sorting wouldn’t hurt either.
Nice review / story DVDRW…
You will get there!!
But on a sidenote: It seems that the R2.5 regs were a lot better “prepared” out of the box then the R3’s?
DVDRW:
Thanks for a veeery interesting post that I need to study further… !!!
And you’ve got som excellent images of your own. Keep’em coming….
Cheers
Trygve 😀
Actually I turned the regulator clockwise half a turn but it made me think about something. Ted’s regulator was set 155BAR because it’s a 25 caliber. Mine is set at 130BAR, or at least that’s what it is written on it because it’s a 22 caliber. I did turned the HST anti-clockwise 2 turns to start fresh.
The rear breach and air removal : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWZBxMZ7dbg
The regulator removal and adjusting : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvJORdBt2KM
Unfortunately, it’s 19:30 here and too dark for the chrony to work. Tomorrow I will have time to test and to start over if necessary. Ted was wright. 25 minutes to have the gun assembled again and I think I can do better. Very easy once you have the wright tools and Teds’s videos on the side.
I wish oldgoat would post a video or pictures showing “in lead re-contouring and the polishing of the in lead and crown”. I suppose it’s common sense but as a foreigner I don’t understand “in lead” and I’d like to see the exact procedure for the crowning.
I have a few free days and I’d like to do everything it needs to be done for a perfect R3.
Dvdrw,
Thanks for sharing this info and glad to hear you have your gun back. I was surprised to see the effect of those 3 O-rings on the shot strings. My moderator has only one O-ring on the muzzle end. Will put on the other two to give it a try (thanks go to Dr. Edgun for the o-ring sets) after returning my trip. Can’t wait to get home from this long trip…
To me, the first and second string look totally different in pattern. First string is creeping up with shot and the second one (with o-ring installed) is creeping down. This confuses me. Did you adjust the HST screw? Based on the 2nd string, it seems HST is too strong. I think it will help to reduce the spread if you tune down the regulator and also the HST.
Endo
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When you chrony it’s not needed to weigh the pellets. The difference is not noticeable at that short distance.
At 100 yards you would see some difference, but not in the shotstring. Also, A difference of 5 fps isn’t something that have big impact at 100 yards, believe me.
So it leaves me with the sidenote that the reg is not that “settled” or “adjusted” like the R2.5 regs. Those where out of the box much more consistent.