Valve Stems and Tanks?
Okay, I’m not the sharpest knife in the airgun drawer but do I understand correctly that the only difference in air output to the projectile is the hole in the valve stem given that the tophat settings are the same?
If so, how many flavors of valves are there? What’s stock and what’s not?
If it’s just a matter of swapping stems and barrels, then anyone could have anything, right?
Paul
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LT,
Could you bump up the size of the avatar a bit, I’m having a hard time reading the logo…
I’m still curious to see what he is getting for a velocity with the R&L valve without a hammer weight…
I was getting 43 fpe for 20 shots. I sold that 12″ barrel and never got around to getting another. I’d bet that the 18″ would make 50 easy.
Dyotat, ok, I wasn’t sure if the 12 could get to super or not.
I’m still curious to see what he is getting for a velocity with the R&L valve without a hammer weight…
one thing when running a 12 incher is you will top out in speed as well as fpe and your wasting air to top out as well, if one wants more than an 18 incher is in order… and hell 18 with a shroud is stock condor length, only 3 inches longer than my condor ss, not bad at all… so if anyone wants to trade their 18 for my 12 please just hit me up!
Not with 12″ barrel. I did 2 stems for member and 945 fps with .25 JSB’s was as fast as it would go with 12 barrel.
If some one wants to send me a barrel I will do some testing to see what I can get. I know with my valve it would go 1150+ but at the expense of a lot of air.
I don’t see why you couldn’t easily get into 1000fps+ with 30 grain 25cal pellets and the R&L valve and an 18″ barrel … I could see getting more since that valve is equal to or more powerful than a stock Condor valve.
The beauty of these rifles for me was to slide in a big caliber barrel, screw on a tank set up to match it and shoot. Swap out the small caliber barrel, screw on the proper tank and shoot. I gave up on trying to get two tanks to shoot at equal velocity on the same calibered barrel. Shit you could even color code stuff to make it easy. 😆
The regular Talon valve is perfect for 17 & 20 and light/mid weight 22 calibers. Not sure you would see too much of any difference with a single piece stem compared to the R&L stem (it all depends on the size of the opening in the stem and the relative tophat settings of each one) I have no idea what the diameters are offhand. You may want to try the Condor hammer weight ($14 I think from AF) with the R&L stem, it may net you more power for cheap.
What velocities at what pellet weight are you getting with the 12″ 25cal, Talon hammer weight and the R&L valve? Top hat setting?
Basically right now you are shooting a TalonP in 25 with a slightly modded Condor valve with your 12″ barrel & RL valve, you just have more air in the tank (I do believe the TalonP valve is slightly better than the stock Condor valve?, not sure anyone did any serious relative/comparative testing between the two).
I believe you should be able to push a 30 grain pellet supersonic with a 12″ barrel and the R&L valve, which would be 55+ fpe…. I could get 1000+ fps EASY with a stock Condor valve, a 0.088″ tophat dim and a Condor hammer weight in a 24″ 25cal Talon SS.
What kind of power could be realized out of a R&L valve and the 18″ barrel in .25? IIRC, I was getting about 40 fpe or so out of a 12″ barrel.
No hammer weight and don’t have a clue about the valve springs.
Funny you should mention that. I put a .177 barrel on the R&L valve/tank. Smokin’ hot, supersonic. But when I came in behind it with a rubber washer, it was super consistent and extremely accurate. It’s one of the things that got me wondering about all this in the first place.
I’m not all that hungry for power. I live in a free state and suppressed powder burners can deliver some thump on the target. What I’m really after is a setup that will handle all “pellet” diameters well, i.e. .17, .20, .22, .25. And I’d like to stay with my R&L shroud on the Talon and work with the SS shroud to keep things quieted down (but it’s still kinda loud, I may have to buy some innards for it).
So if I took a one piece condor stem and replace my R&L stem, then I’d be backing up power wise, but the SS valve will handle the .177 and .20 fine.
I think we finally determined he has them custom machined from scratch and eventually switched to a harder tool steel or something… 😕
Something tells me that the OP is looking for a ‘simple’ set up. 😆 😉
But I wonder why his R&L valve is so under powered, can’t be just the 12″ barrel… 😯
Syn,
I have been running a RL valve stem for a year or so now.
With my 56 grain cast bullets and a 23 inch barrel, all Airarcher fire control parts ie., meaning valve spring and retainer and tapered derlin seat, and the airarcher hammer, hammer spring and rear barrel bushing which replaces the PW, I can get three 132 FPE shots from a 3200PSI fill, then it drops into the 120 FPE range.
But I get better accuracy around 120 FPE by reducing top hat clearance from .13 to .09 and of course more shots.
The RL stem appears to be just a opened up Condor stem that allows better airflow, but it may have been made that way from the start.
It seems to be pretty durable, lord knows I have been whacking it pretty hard over the last year.
Regards,
Roachcreek
I believe the R&L stem is custom and not exactly a Condor stem (from what I recall it should be able to produce more power). I could get 50-55fpe with a 24″ 25cal barrel on my Talondor for about 25 shots (30 grain pellets) and this was with a normal tophat gap.
24″ is the way to go if noise is not a concern, if noise is a concern then 18″ is probably more off hand friendly and you can still get a good amount of power in 25cal.. If noise is an issue in general then use the SS frame for the larger calibers and the Talon frame for the smaller calibers, that extra frame length will come in handy with a shroud.
Are you running a hammer weight on the R&L valve? Or do you know if you even need to based on the springs in the valve?
I would avoid using the R&L (or Condor) valve on the smaller calibers (17 & 20). And I certainly think that the polished TTT valves are perfect for 25 caliber, you will want to run the Surefire slugs if you are running a 25 cal setup, they simply cannot be beat for power an accuracy (unless you cast your own) and if you want to run them you will need all the power you can get. 😉
The beauty of the AF system is it is easy to swap out the tanks (easier than the barrels) and when you swap out the barrel you can also add or subtract the hammer weight. Five minutes and you can go from 17 to 25. Match tank to barrel and for a few hundred $ you have multiple rifles within a single frame.
I would go with a longer barrel, it is a quick way to pick up a lot more power, especially since you have a RL valve.
Try to find someone who can let you handle both a 18 inch and a 24 inch SS or Condor so you can see the difference.
I have both and like them both, But I don’t have a shroud on my long gun, which makes them too long for some people.
RC
Yeah making valves is tiff ithink I finally figured out my. Custom 308 valve I think I can finally break 950 with a 118 grain bullet took a lot of messing and tweeking the ports to get it to 900
Thanks for the info. I’m just trying to accomplish the most versatility with the least amount of expense.
I have two Talon Rifles, a SS in .177 and a Talon in .22. The SS has a standard valve which handles the .177 nicely and would probably do fine with a .20 barrel.
My Talon in .22 has a Hi-Flo valve from R&L (which I assume to be a Condor Valve but I don’t know for sure). It is outstanding in .22 with a 12″ barrel, running 34 fpe for 25-30 shots but it’s a little anemic in .25 caliber with a 12″ barrel.
So, should I stick with the current valve stems (or their one piece equivalents) and just run longer barrels for better performance in .20 for the SS and .25 in the Talon? Or should I have a stem that’s best suited for each caliber?
Nice explanation, I was trying to put it all together and you just did it for me…thanks
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Could you bump up the size of the avatar a bit, I’m having a hard time reading the logo…
I know what you mean… when it was there all I could make out is that it was blue….. lol