What would you rather have? .22 or .25 both at 32ftlb?
Hello-
I have a little dilemma, I have 2 Edgun in .25 and in .22. I really DO NOT need the energy of the 25 at max fps (900fps).
I will only keep one gun, my dilemma is should I keep the .22 or reduce the energy of the .25 to shot around 750fps which will produce the same energy(32ftlb) of the .22 shooting at 900fps?
I know if I keep the .22 the pellets are easy to come by and the muzzle sounds will be a bit quieter as well. As for the .25, in the long run of IF I need more power, it’s there for me to adjust at will. Accuracy should be the same if there is no winds. Shots counts should be also the same if I reduce the .25 energy.
thanks all,
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Viewing 7 replies - 1 through 7 (of 7 total)
With those limitations I’d pick the 22 at 900 fps, just my choice.
The 25 cal may buck the wind better but at 750 fps it will take a bit longer to get there.
It can be affect by the wind for that added longer hang/air time.
Also the trajectory will be almost twice as much with the 25 cal.
An Airgunner needs to take into account of the type of game also will depend on the caliber size used.
Here’s some food for thought for you comparing 177 with 22 cal, it’s a lot to digest but good reads indeed. :biggrinn:
Even though I don’t agree with it all, you can pick out what you like and don’t like.
.177 versus .22 By jkirschy
Introduction:
One of the more common air-gun questions we get at Yahoo Answers is which caliber is better, .177 or .22. Whenever that question is asked, there’s always a lot of misinformation and disinformation that gets spouted in addition to the usual heckling you see on any air-gun question. There are also a couple people who make an honest attempt to explain the complexities of the issue and help people to make an informed choice. This essay is intended to help clarify the topic in a format which does not have a character limit and hopefully reduce the controversy about which of the two most popular airgun calibers is “better” by examining the advantages and disadvantages of both calibers.
Power:
Unlike firearms, an air-gun’s ammunition does not supply any of the projectile’s power. The air-gun’s power plant is the only source of power for the projectile. So if you take two airguns of the same make and model that differ only in caliber, they will usually produce almost identical power levels with 1 ft-lb or less of muzzle energy separating the two calibers. To prove that the power difference between calibers is minimal, lets look at typical chronograph numbers for a hunting air-gun, the RWS 34.
caliber pellet weight muzzle velocity muzzle energy
.177 8.3 grain 900 fps 14.9 ft-lbs
.22 14.5 grain 685 fps 15.1 ft-lbs
There is an exception to this generalization with pre-charged air-guns, particularly the more powerful pre-charged airguns, since they are at their most efficient when shooting heavier pellets which can give an energy advantage to .22 caliber guns. However this rule of thumb holds true for spring-piston air-guns, co2 air-guns, and pump pneumatics. So the notion that .22 caliber guns are inherently more powerful is generally false.
Speed Kills:
While I have no doubt that this is true when it comes to drugs, in the world of airguns, this is another myth. Speed does not kill. Impact energy, destruction of major organs, and bleeding from the wound channel is what kills game. Velocity is one part of kinetic energy, so it does contribute to the amount of impact energy. However it is only part of the equation. As a result it’s possible to have a light, high-velocity pellet and a heavy, low-velocity pellet with the same, or very nearly the same, impact energy. Again let’s look at some numbers.
caliber pellet weight impact velocity impact energy
.177 8 grains 822 fps 12 ft-lbs
.22 14 grains 621 fps 12 ft-lbs
So by looking at the energy figures in that table, its apparent that velocity by itself does not make an airgun any more deadly.
An additional concern with high velocities when shooting airguns is the negative impact that velocities over 1000 fps have on accuracy. In these “trans-sonic regions”, the high drag nature of airgun pellets tends to produce poor accuracy because of how aerodynamics changes as you approach the speed of sound. It’s sort of like how Chuck Yeager complained that the X1 was shaking a whole lot as it approached the speed of sound. This “shaking” results in larger groups and poorer accuracy. So it’s actually advantageous to keep pellet velocities in the 800-1000 fps range, well below the speed of sound.
.177 for Feathers & .22 for Fur:
This is a common catch-all you’ll hear when someone asks the .177 vs. .22 question. And there is some truth to it. However it radically over-simplifies things. The idea behind this saying is that that lighter .177 caliber pellets are more effective for small, light bodied animals like birds while the heavier .22 caliber pellets are more effective with mammals like squirrel and rabbit because it leaves a bit larger wound channel. And it might even have been true back in the 1950s and 1960s when air-gun power levels hovered around 5-8 ft-lbs of muzzle energy. However today things have changed.
Today it really doesn’t make a lot of difference whether you’re using .177 or .22 caliber for most small game (squirrels & rabbits), nuisance birds (English sparrows, starlings, and feral pigeons), or vermin (mice & rats). That’s because the energy levels for the “adult” air-guns people use for hunting run from a low of around 5 ft-lbs of muzzle energy up to 80 ft-lbs of muzzle energy. The average spring piston gun (the most common choice for hunting due to its affordable price) seems to be about 12-17 ft-lbs of muzzle energy. In addition, the pellets we have today are usually better quality and perform better than the ones from the 1950s and 1960s. So not only do today’s guns deliver more energy, but they also deliver more accuracy, which lets people place pellets to make better use of the energy their guns deliver. And to be perfectly honest, x ft-lbs of impact energy is x ft-lbs of impact energy regardless of whether its delivered by a .177 or .22 pellet.
The only time when caliber does become an issue is when you’re using an airgun for larger than normal game, like raccoons, opossum, nutria, or fox. With animals that are that big and tough, .22 caliber pellets are a better choice. That’s not necessarily because of any inherent advantage, simply because very heavy .22 (or even .25) caliber pellets shot at high velocities from the most powerful “magnum” spring-piston and more powerful pre-charged air-guns, which are the only appropriate choice for animals that large, can and do let you deliver a lot more impact energy without pushing the pellet to transonic and supersonic velocities.
Compromises:
Having already stated that both .177 and .22 caliber pellet guns can be used to kill small game animals, it’s important to note that both calibers have strengths and weaknesses. And so choosing a caliber is necessarily a matter of compromises. Which caliber to pick is in part a matter of which compromises you’re willing to make and in part a matter of matching the pellet to the power of the gun you’re looking at.
.177 caliber guns shoot a lighter, smaller diameter pellet at a higher velocity. This produces a flatter trajectory at realistic airgun ranges, say out to 40 yards. This flatter trajectory reduces the importance of range estimation and makes it easier to precisely place a pellet since hold-over/hold-under becomes less important. In addition, .177 caliber offers two other advantages. The first is that since it is the most common airgun caliber, it has an extremely wide selection of pellets. This increases the odds of finding a pellet your gun shoots accurately. The second is that because .177 pellets use less material and are made in such huge numbers the cost is usually much less than a .22 caliber pellet. This difference in cost is several cents per each pellet. So if you’re planning on shooting a lot, either in formal matches or plinking, .177 caliber is very appealing. There are two disadvantages of .177 caliber: a narrower wound channel and tendency to over-penetrate on light-bodied animals like nuisance birds. Both are related to the fact that the .177 is a smaller diameter projectile. The narrower wound channel means that with body shots .177 caliber will do less internal damage and correspondingly take longer to allow an animal to bleed out. The over penetration issue stems from the fact that the impact energy is spread over a smaller area. Neither disadvantage is insurmountable, especially if you limit yourself to head-shots and use pellets which are optimized for the kinds of game animals you’re shooting.
.22 caliber guns shoot a heavier, larger diameter pellet at a lower velocity. As a result of their greater diameter, they will produce a larger wound channel and are less likely to over-penetrate. The larger diameter wound channel means they’re going to kill more quickly with a body shot. And the fact they are less likely to over-penetrate means they actually may be a better choice for nuisance birds. There are two big disadvantages to .22 caliber pellets though: trajectory and cost. In guns producing less than 20 ft-lbs of muzzle energy, .22 caliber pellets result in a more pronounced trajectory which means range estimation has to be more precise than with a .177 caliber gun producing less than 20 ft-lbs. In guns producing over 20 ft-lbs, trajectory issues largely go away. The other disadvantage is cost… The cheapest .177 pellets run about $.01 per shot. The cheapest .22 pellets cost about $.03 per shot. So if you plan to shoot a lot, .22 will cost significantly more over the life of the gun.
The 20 ft-lb Rule:
It’s important to reiterate that both .177 and .22 caliber guns can be used to take small game (squirrels & rabbits), nuisance birds (English sparrows, starlings, and feral pigeons), or vermin (mice & rats). That said, I think the advantage between the calibers shifts at around 20 ft-lbs of muzzle energy because of issues with trajectory and pellet velocity.
In guns producing less than 20 ft-lbs of muzzle energy, .177 caliber has the advantage. The reason is that the flatter trajectory aids more accurate shot placement in the field. This stems from the fact that unless you’re using some form of range-finder, it’s all too easy to be off a bit when you estimate the distance to a rabbit or squirrel. The more pronounced trajectory of a .22 requires a bit more compensation which is more likely to result in either a bad hit or a miss if your range estimate is off. So personally I’d rather minimize the chances of that by going with a .177 caliber in guns producing less than 20 ft-lbs.
In guns producing over 20 ft-lbs of muzzle energy, I think the advantage shifts to .22 caliber. At that point the trajectory is sufficiently flat that .177 caliber doesn’t offer any substantial advantage. And just as importantly, in guns producing more than 20 ft-lbs of muzzle energy, the heavier .22 pellets let you keep the velocity sub-sonic where accuracy is best unlike .177 caliber pellets which will hit the transonic region due to their lighter weight. As a result, accuracy tends to be better, especially when you look at guns producing 25, 30, 40, or more ft-lbs of muzzle energy.
Which Is Better?
If you’re like me, at this point you probably want a simple answer to the question which is better. As I’ve stated throughout this essay, both calibers can reliably take small animals up to the size of rabbits at reasonable airgun ranges. And in the hands of an experienced shooter, both calibers can be surprisingly accurate. So while certain calibers may have an advantage at a given power level, which is best ultimately becomes a matter of personal preference. With that truism in mind, I encourage you to consider the information presented here as an introductory primer to help you make a good choice.
~ GKU
I like the .25 better it fights the wind better and has better knock down power at further ranges. but the nice thing about .22 is you can get ammo any where in a hurry. this is not an issue for me because I buy in bulk and reorder when down to 2 cans 700 pellets. :biggrinn:
Keyser –
I should have all those of you mentioned one in each calibers and at the recommented fps as well. I do wish to have a CC just for airgun purchases and do a 30yrs payment like my house. I’ll do it in a heart beat.
Yes I do need to sell this one to get the Taipan Mutant (long) if the air efficient is or better than the Edgun.
Thanks for all the feedback guys!
Are you asking if you should only have one airgun? whatcha crazy? Tell you what you need. You need another .22 that you set at 815 fps with the 15.89 pellets, a 25 set at 930, a .30 set at 945, a .177 at 850 and a .20 set to 820. Then an only then can you come here and ask if you should sell one, to which we’ll answer “only sell to buy more”.
To answer your question seriously, keep the .22. I have made some amazing shots with the 32 ftp .22. If I didn’t use my guns to kill feral pigeons and squirrels I would only have a .22. With my EDgun .25 and Vulcan .25 I have had poor results slowing the pellet down for longer range. It is already super difficult to dope shots 100 yards plus, why make it harder? Stick with the flatter shooting .22
I already had a .177 Cricket and .22 Cricket and a Edgun .30 so dumping the Edgun .25 was easy. Really I use the .177 and .22 most of the time and the .177 the most. The .25 is ok if you can only have one gun IMO and need the power for something.
For me .22, pellets are cheaper plus you get more per tin. Right now I’m shooting at 32 fpe and just 30 minutes ago shot a large coon over at the grain elevator. Coon was inside the building up on a beam. Shot him right through the ear and down he came.
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What really matters to each shooter is what you are shooting at . Paper , cans , live targets , or just fucking around . Your personal likes verses what
other shooters say what is the right caliber and pellet choice you should be shooting really doesn’t mean shit . You decide what is best for you and
not what other’s think . You have your own likes , are you going to date a blonde when a redhead turns you on more because someone tells you that
a blonde is better ? I don’t think so , you are going to go for what you like , the same thing goes in shooting . You as a shooter will choose what will
work the best for your shooting needs . For myself a .177 cal. is totally worthless for what I want to shoot and kill . I started out with a .22 cal. for
a year and it was good and it surprised me that I was able to kill a coyote at 9 yds. with it . However , I came to the conclusion that what would
really have the best shooting results that I wanted was in the .25 cal. range and after up grading to .25 cal. and testing 5 different pellet grains
I found that my Talon SS liked three different grains of pellets for the different distances that I was shooting them at . Now that I have ordered
a .25 cal. Vulcan from Tony it will be fun to see how these three different pellet grains will work .
FROM : THE BIRDMAN