Q:

Making a custom mold advise needed

I have half of this figured out. My idea is for a simple to produce mold for testing different shapes and weights of pellet. My tools are limited to mostly hand tools however a surprising lot can be accomplished given time, trial and error, and lots of stopping for measurements. I’m not making them by the hundred for target practice or anything. My plan is to trial and error my way through different concepts and hone craftsmanship in the process.

I can polish the sides of two pieces of aluminum bar stock to near mirror and grind the top flat so they match seamlessly. Instead of hinging the mold I will hold the two halves together with pins and clamps. I could drill it out easily enough and counter sinking it will make a simple conical skirt. I won’t attempt hollowing the skirt at first and could try gas checks or maybe paper patch. Where I am stuck is creating the head and gas checks. For the head of the pellet I have considered putting a metal sleeve down into the mold to protect it with the bit chucked into a Dremel suspended in a crummy drill press like device. Then rotate the entire mold along the bench as the burr head cuts and use the sleeve as a sort of fence to limit it’s cutting depth. Measure, adjust, replace with different size sleeve, repeat until desired result. A modified wire nail could be used similarly to cut gas checks into aluminum. I would be glad to hear any improvements to this.

Mods/Machinists

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I’m sure at least a couple of you are wondering if I’m dead since I said I’d be back after a week and it’s been quite a bit longer now. Work become more work thanks to mismanagement and poor corporate planning the likes of which I have never seen. I’m home now, I haven’t had time to touch a computer or work on my hobby projects at all. I’m going to be busy with other matters more important than hobby until the 15th and I’ll finish my Condor specific(70fpe 1:16 twist choked) pellet designs based on what I’ve read on ballistics over the past few weeks.
Revwarnut, pressing both sides at once would be faster and would be the proper thing to do if the hinge were already applied before the cavity is created but for this non-production little experiment of mine I’m going to press one side at a time in a vice and then match the sides before drilling and inserting index pins. A little more work for each but I’ll only be making a couple minus the defects I’ll throw away. If something comes out with decent penetration and/or accuracy then I’ll make a nicer mold but otherwise I’ve had fun and will move on to the next project.

Boy… if you don’t get in on a thread like this right away, it sure takes a while to read through it all…. 😆 🙄

Anyhow… I am late in the game, but how about this for your problem of pushing both sides of the mold into the spinning cherry?

http://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch-cross-slide-vise-32997.html

http://www.harborfreight.com/5-inch-drill-press-milling-vise-94276.html

And if you are in need of any cherries…. hell…. I’ve got plenty of them in my freezer from my 3 cherry trees… I just can’t see how they are going to cut into steel let alone aluminum!!! 😯 😆 😆

“…hair on ya bud.”??? What does that mean? Is there a translation for that?

I actually consider it an honor to be insulted by Voltar. 😉

(For the new guys, Voltar is anything but a troll…sometimes he just sounds like one.) Cheers Walter! 😀

quote WalkonKing:

I just buy pellets 😉

😉 Ok wise guy

Thanks Gippeto, your answer looks right from here. I’m going to re-solve all of that to see where I went wrong and now I know my back is covered if needed. Most likely I converted from metric incorrectly and was going off the wrong weight.

I’ll be doing the rest silently from my hotel room. I’ll make maybe 10 or so projectiles designed for casting, archive them, and upload somewhere so in the future if anybody wants to try making a mold without doing all the research they can pick and choose what they think looks good. I’ll probably pick 2 or 3 to make depending how well it goes. I’ll browse the forum but I wont be posting anything significant here until I get home and finish.

Sure…do it the EASY way…just like everyone else.

Hell…I guess I do too. 😯

…for the most part…places never seems to have stock on .758″ 550grain or 830grain fosters…or the 520grain diablos.

Small market I suppose. 😉

I just buy pellets 😉

Using your dimmensions and 11.34g/cc (density of lead) I’m getting 30.15grains….that’s with a solid skirt.

quote :

X2! When people explain what went wrong, its much more informative and interesting IMO.

I’m only human after all and I’ve learned a lot from others mistakes.
Maybe this will save someones laser/LED if they see this and realize you need to apply the diode law. When it comes to the tool making stage, mold forming stage, and casting stage you’ll be sure to see more shortcomings on my part and I see no reason why everybody can’t get a little laugh and a little insight from it. What’s the worst I can do, make the username bananaman look like a fool?:lol:

“Failure is instructive. The person who really thinks learns quite as much from his failures as from his successes.”
– John Dewey

My friend hasn’t replied with the answer to my weight conundrum so I’ll bet he’s getting the same answer and doesn’t want to tell me. I’ll have to call him before I leave since he hasn’t been online.
If anybody wants to take a crack at finding volume then converting that to weight here are the geometric shapes that make up the projectile I based off the JSB 25.4gr.

Half sphere .216 dia
Truncated cone .216 base .2 top .05 height
Cylinder .2 dia .1 height
Truncated cone .216 base .2 top .09 height

The weight of lead is somewhere in my notes but I have to sleep so I’m not searching all night.

If you’re all getting bored of the egghead stuff and wondering why I have to go into such mathematical detail, bear with me. I’m doing a lot of this for myself because I’d like to re-learn a lot of math so I apply it heavily where ever I can.
Sucking at Algebra and Trigonometry is a real handicap for some of the more egghead-ish stuff I try and I’m sure it’s annoying when I have to keep asking people. I’m a firm believer that you should use your weaknesses until they become a strength.

Either way you guys are either interested or waiting for me to move on to the next part while browsing over the pictures and technical stuff. I’ll throw in the next sound projectile design at the bottom.
My other reason is I believe non-proprietary information should be shared. Maybe someone will take my ideas a step further and make a really good condor specific pellet that gets an extra 50 yards accurately or tighter groups than store bought ammo (I don’t think airguns have reached the peak of their potential just yet, we can squeeze a few MOA out) and start selling it… and give me some freebies as tribute 😉

As for the technical stuff. Yeah I’m sure I typed the URL right so I don’t have to check again. This model was designed for superior terminal ballistics for you hunters.

quote pablouk:

I like that you post your fuck ups too… 😎 😆 😆

X2! When people explain what went wrong, its much more informative and interesting IMO.

I like that you post your fuck ups too… 😎 😆 😆

Well I’m pissed off today. Did so much work that I got nothing done. Went back to designing my first projectile based on the measurements I took Friday. My first series of designs is based off of the known good JSB. The first of them is a nearly exact copy just with the skirt solid. When I did the math to find the total volume and then I converted that from inches to ml and then converted that to grams of lead and then converted that back to grains, I got over 151 grains after solving it all beginning to end 4 fucking times. Wow, lead is more dense than lead and uranium combined now! I’m having a friend that’s better at math solve it for me now to figure out just where in the series of equations I messed up. I’m sure you guys are bored of all the math and ideas but I’m having some fun with most of it.

Here is what I’ve worked out so far to use as my “mold machine”. I borrowed my father’s drill Saturday because it’s better than anything I have for this. It also has a mount point for a forehand grip. I’ll use this forehand mount point to mount it in a frame pointing downward between the jaws of my vice. I can then chuck the cherry/form tool into the drill once I get it close to the size and finish it as if it is a sort of vertical lathe. Pictured is the drill and vice so you can see what I’m talking about. As long as the drill is held fast at two points and the frame is solid it should be stable enough for usable tolerances. I can’t feel any play in the chuck but the measurement system I’m about to explain will determine any wobble.

Now for measuring. Originally I was going to use my caliper to painstakingly measure the cherry in progress after each minute cut like usual. I looked across the room the other day and realized there is a big mirror. So what about the mirror? Well it’s not perfect. Since the mirror is not perfect, a collimated laser will diverge after reflecting from it into a cone of light (previously tested). If this cone is shone across the workpiece it projects an exact, scaled up shadow on the wall. I can design the tool in qcad and print it out. Using one of my precision lenses I can scale the projection and calibrate it to the image. I’ll have a real time 2d laser projection of the work piece as it’s being cut so I can see the measurement without having to constantly stop to measure. Theoretically you could even project a second shadow of a real pellet with a different color laser and place it over the image of the workpiece to make an exact copy of any pellet. Once the cherry is made I can then use the exact same setup to press one side of the mold at a time onto the cherry. For this I suppose I could use the laser method to watch it cut to exactly 50% but the laser would have to be at absolutely exactly 90% or it’ll be off by a lot so manual measurements should be taken.
Now the part that pisses me off. I was thinking about the $%*& math I wanted to do and why the hell I didn’t pay attention to this crap in school while I was setting up a flashy cool demonstration with lasers and smoke to project a scaled up pellet on the wall for you guys to see what I’m talking about. I then saw a green flash and realized I just bypassed the circuit I made on my breadboard. Instead of stepping 12v down to 3.3v I applied 12v 25a directly to my diode!

Hopefully my new diode arrives when I get back from this work trip. I’ll be packing up my equipment and doing some vehicle maintenance in addition to my other work so I won’t have any time for hobby stuff until next week, sorry.

Now to address:
Powderburner, cool I didn’t think you’d be starting yours so soon. Be sure to keep posted here so we can feed off each other’s ideas. Your casting experience will come in handy for me later since I all I have to go on is my plastic casting, failed lead casting and stuff I found online.
I did find something reading about casting that lead does not like to fill around sharp edges in a mold. When I cast that emblem in school it had a lot of deep angular parts in the letters so instead of bubbles (there were some sperical bubbles though) it could have been bad design.

Gippeto While minimally relevant I actually enjoyed reading that, went on into chapter 4 before I got tired. Over time technology and tactics change so much yet some things, the human parts of warfare, will never change.

Walt in Hawaii, that is exactly how he was doing it but don’t worry, your tools will never murder you in your sleep like his sorcery.

quote Gippeto:

quote benneeb0y:

quote bananaman:

As a side note, next time I start a project I’ll have to include a detailed introduction so everyone knows what I’m working with is not the normal and what I intend to actually do. I honestly was expecting maybe 4 or 5 comments and then figure the rest out myself. Never did I expect so many people to jump onto this and go into 5 pages now in just the planning stages. Hope it’s been entertaining thus far for you guys because you’ve been most helpful to me.

It’s how we do it!!!! Nanaman, nanaman!!!!!!!!!! 😆 😆 😆 😆 Well not me lol 😆

Dunno about the other guys…but it’s bloody WINTER here. Nothing else to do…we’re bored out of our freakin skulls, and you’re providing a distraction. 😆

Not entirely relevent, but an interesting read non the less… Check May 17 and 21. 🙂

http://www.anvilfire.com/21centbs/stories/PPW/B3_chapter-2.htm

😆 😆 😆

quote Voltar_1:

Walt, what you are calling a cherry is called a form tool AFAIK

a cherry has the full shape to it.

Thanks for that Walt, but I don’t do this kinda thing anymore, too time consuming. But there are about a bazillion other casters, shooters, and machinists out there calling it ‘cherries’ and goodness me, no one’s told them 🙂

On to the good news… just came back from a scouting trip and found some really promising sites for pigs on the North Shore… will be doing some night time recon trips to see how many are coming into this spot. Exciting!

walt

quote benneeb0y:

quote bananaman:

As a side note, next time I start a project I’ll have to include a detailed introduction so everyone knows what I’m working with is not the normal and what I intend to actually do. I honestly was expecting maybe 4 or 5 comments and then figure the rest out myself. Never did I expect so many people to jump onto this and go into 5 pages now in just the planning stages. Hope it’s been entertaining thus far for you guys because you’ve been most helpful to me.

It’s how we do it!!!! Nanaman, nanaman!!!!!!!!!! 😆 😆 😆 😆 Well not me lol 😆

Dunno about the other guys…but it’s bloody WINTER here. Nothing else to do…we’re bored out of our freakin skulls, and you’re providing a distraction. 😆

Not entirely relevent, but an interesting read non the less… Check May 17 and 21. 🙂

http://www.anvilfire.com/21centbs/stories/PPW/B3_chapter-2.htm

quote bananaman:

As a side note, next time I start a project I’ll have to include a detailed introduction so everyone knows what I’m working with is not the normal and what I intend to actually do. I honestly was expecting maybe 4 or 5 comments and then figure the rest out myself. Never did I expect so many people to jump onto this and go into 5 pages now in just the planning stages. Hope it’s been entertaining thus far for you guys because you’ve been most helpful to me.

It’s how we do it!!!! Nanaman, nanaman!!!!!!!!!! 😆 😆 😆 😆 Well not me lol 😆

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