.177 Talon. Barrel length, velocity, #good shots per fill?
I’m been impressed with my Talon Stubby in .22. It’s got the Hi-Flo valve and I can get 30 good shots at 34 fpe from a 3000 psi fill. I think it’s an ultimate hunting rifle, especially for the price.
I’ve toyed with the idea of picking up one in .177 for Hunter Field Target. But I would like to optimize it for shooting 10+ grain pellets at 19.5 fpe. I understand that because these rifles are so adjustable, many things come into play, including but not limited to: fill pressure, barrel length, top hat setting, power wheel setting, etc.
I assume a longer barrel will be more efficient but how much is too much? That’s really the biggest concern as everything else can be determined and readily changed.
Also, my .22 is LOUD without the shroud. Is the .177 at 20fpe loud too? I’ve heard lots of longer barreled .177s on the range and they don’t seem too bad, so I guess it’s a function of the shorter barrel on my .22?
Paul
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doesent matter, the ones i use are .071 thick and just smaller around than the outside of the top hat.
also any of my masurements you see are not including the oring, they are between the top hat and brass.
if you just drop in an oring in will kill allot of fps,like 300, then you just adjust the top hat up untill you get what you want.
any way i would be very interested in seeing a 177 tuned like this, to see if i would want to buy a 177 to play with.
Well I meant to say Air Force rifles instead of exclusively the Talon. I’m not totally clear on the differences. But they are sold in .177 so it must work on some level.
What size o-ring should I start with?
Paul
dot know about the talons, would just have to search for it, ,what psi are you running in the tank, and top hat gap, if you turn back the top hat you can kill fps quick, but anything less than like .040 in my condor was hitting the brass behing the top hat , this is why i started running the oring.
if you just drop in an oring in will kill allot of fps,like 300, then you just adjust the top hat up untill you get what you want.
any way i would be very interested in seeing a 177 tuned like this, to see if i would want to buy a 177 to play with.
I appreciate the replies. Yeah, I really like the rifle as is power wise in .22 and the Maddog stock is the bomb. It’s actually why I was thinking about it for Hunter Class.
I’ve got a HW100 that is very accurate in .177. It’s regged and shooting CPH at 19fpe. It is a joy to shoot and what I use for the game. But my daughter really likes the Talon. I let her shoot it at the match the other day but it was kicking out 25+fpe turned all the way down.
What velocity do standard Talons run in .177? I wouldn’t think they are cracking the sound barrier but I’m just guessing.
Paul
liberty man i think we are thinking about the same thing, i havent bought any other barrels because i haven’t wanted to change my condor around, but i have thought about the 177 thing since i bought the gun, what synopsys is saying is right on, if you are knock down serious about field target you will want the most accurate gun available,but ($$$$$$$$$) if you use the air force platform , it’s because just that , you want to make the air force work for what your doing,and it will take patience
In this light i have no dought that you can make it competive, if you want to get a 177 24” barrel and make a go of it , i think that with a good polished barrel ,valve, etc, and using an oring you can make the gun very consistant, it will be some work and trial and error,but i think you can make it work without the reg, the reg being another option,
I have made the 22 work very well, and i think the 177 would be even more effiecent , so with the 22 at 800 i can get about 30 consistant shots without a big impact movement, so i am thinking that the 177 using less air would get more shots without the impact moving, so it would work great, but i would not put money on it until i tried it.
Also i have had tank dumps with the 32 g. eunjin when not using the oring, but with the oring and the gun tuned down i think that it will eliminate the dump using the 22 high flow valve & spring, but again dont know for sure untill its tried .
I have followed the etac and reg info from the beginning and the set up is very power specific, meaning when you set up the regulator the psi output has a narrow window , so you have to get the psi output right for what you want, and the etac does not have enough volume of regulated space for the 22 and above to achiece maximum output capable with the bottle alone, but for lower power you can get what you want.
as far as slowing down the 177 , you can do that with the stock set up and an oring behind the top hat.
Do you think it would bring a .177 down to a manageable level, 17-19 fpe shooting heavies with a 24″ barrel?
Also, would I be able to keep my .22 with it’s 12″ barrel at or above 30 fpe with the etac?
i don’t see why it wouldn’t work.
I will get a etac and reg one of these days and set it up on another bottle , and leave my bottle i have now alone, that would give me two set ups, by just changing the bottle and adjusting the power wheel. just have to put a piece of tape on the bottle as to what it is set up for,
Will the etac reg work with the Hi-Flo valve or would I have to get another bottle for the gun?
I would imagine the barrel would need work, i set and lapped my 22 barrel for hours to get it to perform,
I just have not seen any one post groups for the 177 condor that small, 22 yes.
if you set up a 177 barrel on a 22 valve, bottom out the pw or i can essentially guarantee a dump. you can call af to get a 177 valve return spring.
.25″ at 50? im not that good, even after 25 years. the lw barrels need the breech area lapped out a bit after turning, or the problem with choking at the breech will eliminate any hope of a group like that. might wanna think about a custom barrel.
Did you guys see good accuraacy with the .177 air force rifles,i mean i have not seen 1/4″ 50 yard groups with .177 air force guns , have you.
synopsys
i made a shooting harness and it works, but i don’t think i would go into public with it, it’s pretty ghetto, a lifting back brace with two sets of straps, one going around the back and over the shoulder traps hooked to one going around my knees, i can sit comfortably for a while, until my butt goes to sleep anyway.
i didn’t think that it would work as good as it does, dammed if i can sit there with a hold just about as good as a bench rest if i get my breathing down . i was putting pellets touching at 36 yards until i lost my concentration, butt going to sleep had something to do with that i think, need to work on something better to sit on.
I have had impact shift i think from the beginning with the condor, if i shoot over about 15 or so shots, i still would not mind trying a regulator some time, i don’t know how i could get thru a match with out topping off and sighters. i could probably squeeze out 25 shots, top off with some sighters then get another 25 with peak accuracy,
I would think that if i bought a 24″ 177 barrel and set it up for 900 fps with the 10 g. pellets, i could get it to be more conservative than witht he 22 set up. but dont know until i try it,
moneyshot
you said you could shoot allot of shots at 850 to 900 with the lighter pellets right, so if i set up my gun like i do with my 22 it should be better, might be fun to play with. or at least get a tight string for a full match without having to top off, synopsys you said it was like 50 shots didn’t you.
I don’t know some times my condor is like scary accurate and consistent, i have gotten 30 shots with like 6 to 10 fps variation, then it just goes away and i cant get it that tight again, without messing around with the tune , I think my condor is a female i swear.
I just got thru getting the sand bags out and retuning the gun, my accuracy and consistancy went to crap, i was shooting like 1 3/8” at 50 yards, i couldn’t figure it out and getting frustrated.
I cleaned oiled , pulled out all the tricks, nothing, then i put it up and was thinking what was differant, and i had remade the end of my shroud with a smaller hole ,well i guess it ws to small and affecting the pellet flight, so i drilled it out slightly and had instant improvement on accuracy and the variation tightened right up from the oiling i imagine.
I dont know something to think about,
CP heavies (10.5 grains?) around 1000 fps (875-1010). I think JSB Exact heavies would have been better now that I have used them for my USFT… I’m shooting 16-17fpe on the USFT to keep my trajectory as flat as possible without getting the velocity high enough to mess up accuracy (I believe I have a 18″ barrel but it’s tapered and not choked).
It would have been possible to do FT with one Talon tank (even though I had to pump to fill) but far easier if I had a reg. I bought a second Talon tank but it had a different strength return spring than my earlier Talon tank so the difference in PW and tophat settings was so much it made it really difficult to get repeating velocities from setup to setup.
I had some issues with fliers as well and figured it was velocity based since I had used a few different scopes.
Considering how different these rifles can be from one to another it is certainly possible to get them to work for FT if you want to tweak them. I just figure for the hundred bucks or so the reg takes a lot of the tweaking out of it. The reg came out after I had converted my Talon to a 25 caliber Talondor, which was what I would consider the best use of the AF platform.
But I have to say the AF platform is so adaptable it’s awesome. I could change barrels with very little poi change in minutes and with the multiple tanks it was just screw in the right tank and kick ass in any given caliber.
I’ll also admit that for me and shooting FT i’m looking for 3/8″ group at 50 yards from a seated and harnessed position, I was having a really hard time getting there with a benched rifle until I went up in calibers, but with the bigger caliber and 20+ fpe I wouldn’t be allowed to shoot the FT targets.
With adding only a reg and shooting in the FT Hunter class (bipod and a bucket) I think the AF platform could shine almost out of the box, well i’d add a 24″ barrel just to get as much accuracy as I could. And it could be possible without out a reg using some of your limited fill pressure techniques and a valve that has been smoothed out in the right places. 😉
that was at full throttle, i never had a problem backing off the preload to use cphp @about 850-900. valve opened fine from a full fill, and i couldnt give you efficiency figures as the shot count was damn near infinite. all i can say for sure is that i would shoot skenco ultra shocks all day from 3k, and like 60 shots later itd still show 2.6-2.7k…like i said, i shouldnt have fucked with it… 😯
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i like to use one that will stretch snugly around the stem, staying tight under the tophat.
thats just me, though…