"This is just Outrageous!" lol
Here is a link to some pics of the new FX Verminator MKII Xtreme. Looks to be 3 guns in one including an arrow gun.
Those guys at the Yellow must be on vacation or something. This arrow slinging hybrid is clearly an abomination and should be banned and deleted as soon as possible! 🙄
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Whoever designed the AF safety should be slapped.
A simple blocking bar safety would actually be safe and not dangerous like the stock AF safety.
It is really bad when an AF rifle is safer with the stock safety removed .
still, i think the safety should be done away with altogether…
:horse:
And the old ones have that little ledge as opposed to the smaller one.
And how new is the new one? There were a few incidents recently where new rifles had safety firing issues.
Good to see AF changing things for the better, that little ledge looks dangerous if the hammer bar moves when the safety is released! 😕
Michael, you may want to install the unmodified part you were showing earlier. 😀
The one on the right is the new sear. A big improvement.
So is the ‘new’ one the one with the smaller gap above the hole with the split?
And the old ones have that little ledge as opposed to the smaller one.
And how new is the new one? There were a few incidents recently where new rifles had safety firing issues.
Good to see AF changing things for the better, that little ledge looks dangerous if the hammer bar moves when the safety is released! 😕
Michael, you may want to install the unmodified part you were showing earlier. 😀
The new sears have solved the problem with the misfires. Here is a link to some more pics of the updated sears from a previous post.
http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22513
I believe there is a certain vintage (batch) of sears that are causeing most of the trouble. The trigger group parts are cast. There are at least 3 different molds AF has drawn from over the years to make them. I know this because the area where the casting sprue is cut off is in a different place when earlier parts are compared with the same current and interm parts.
In time this sear saftey thing will get mostly corrected gun by gun with the new sears and replacements on the bad ones, so at some point I’ll likely start the Airarcher kits up again.
I would like to see someone with computer skills do an animated gif of the trigger group during the cocking, saftey disengagement, and fireing cycle.
An accurate portrayal would be very enlightning. There is significant movement & shifting of wt from the hammer (striker) release from the saftey block (slide) to sear only support when the saftey is disengaged.
😉
What no hardness tester!!! Hey, I just never know on this forum, people have all kind of things I would never expect! You could be a metallurgist doing quality control testing for NASA…
Hell, stranger things have happened. 😯
I don’t know, being called Steve is quite an insult. 😆 😆 😆
You wouldn’t happen to have a hardness tester would you? 😯 😕 I know, pretty random request. 😉
No way to measure. To the eyeball the holes look the same. The split gap, however is considerably bigger.
Just don’t call me a moRon.
My hardness tester isn’t with me at the moment. 😯
Is there any way to measure the two holes. It may be the lens effect but the lower item looks like the split gap is larger and if it wasn’t cut like that the hole may be larger as well… 😕
I don’t know, being called Steve is quite an insult. 😆 😆 😆
You wouldn’t happen to have a hardness tester would you? 😯 😕 I know, pretty random request. 😉
There are a number of things that are needed to get the proper velocity out of the rifle for firing the arrows. Many folks use heavier hammer springs with the stock hammer or heavier hammers for simply shooting pellets.
But the issue also exists in stock rifles that are brand spanking new…
And there didn’t used to be these issues in the rifles manufactured prior to the outsourcing for cheaper components.
The issue isn’t a product of the AirArcher kits.
And yes, the oblong hole certainly isn’t helping matters…
Well I ordered unmodified trigger parts from AF to see how they compare to the modified ones I have. Excuse the crappy photo. Apart from some fine polishing the catch on the mod. (shinier) piece is smaller. I’ll see how the rest looks later. Thanks again and as for what I’m called in previous posts. I’ve been called worse. 😆
The diagram I linked (which is in the reference section) shows the whole system in the best way to date.
There are a number of things that are needed to get the proper velocity out of the rifle for firing the arrows. Many folks use heavier hammer springs with the stock hammer or heavier hammers for simply shooting pellets.
But the issue also exists in stock rifles that are brand spanking new…
And there didn’t used to be these issues in the rifles manufactured prior to the outsourcing for cheaper components.
The issue isn’t a product of the AirArcher kits.
And yes, the oblong hole certainly isn’t helping matters…
New diagram. Thanks also.
Seems to me like the wallowed out hole in the latch or sear as in this diagram allows enough movement of everything to fire when conditions are wrong/right. So what your saying is tagdagger has a stronger hammer spring in his AirArcher kit and that’s part of that problem?
This diagram on the other hand is complete and shows the hammer sear in the correct position when the rifle is in the firing position…
You can also see that the way the safety bar holds up the hammer sear that if there is extra load on the hammer and the hammer sear is out of place (on it’s oblong pivot hole) when the safety is released the hammer sear can move down enough for the rifle to fire. Or something is going on that allows the center bar to move enough out of position to break the hammer sear and let the rifle fire.
Something tells me that either rifle rifle won’t cock or the safety would be rendered inoperable (or even problematic) if the oblong hole was simply a round hole… I never had an issue with my Talon, well other than the safety was a bitch to release even with the stock spring. While removing the safety may be the best option (apart from redesigning a complete trigger & safety group) it’s an arguable necessity for hunting…
I have a Jewell trigger in my Remington and it has a safety that mimics the original (clunky and difficult to disengage) and while I find it absolutely useless for target/bench shooting it’s there for really one reason in my mind, liability. The trigger is so damned light it would be next to impossible to use with gloves or even use in the field with the safety off and a round chambered, any slight brush on the side of the trigger will allow it to fire yet there is no way to bump fire the thing without destroying the stock from the impact.
The AF safety makes it unsafe and the safety is not in that diagram… That woefully inadequate diagram curiously omits the offending parts and adds nothing informative to the discussion really…
He doesn’t want to modify/redesign or offer a replacement trigger group because then if something happened it would place the liability squarely on his shoulders. He also doesn’t want to recommend removing the safety for exactly the same reasons. Most people don’t want to remove the pins to replace the group (or do the original trigger mod, hell your rifle was even ready for it and you opted out) and thus void their warranty in the process (the AirArcher kit is currently drop in/drop out, in terms of the frame components).
When a stronger hammer spring is added to the rifle it puts tremendous pressure on the hammer sear and when the safety is released there is a tendency for the rifle to fire without touching the trigger. This also happens occasionally in rifles that are brand new and unmodified.
Perhaps a diagram of a complete trigger group could help explain the issue, when you have the chance perhaps you could modify your drawing (I mean, Steve could modify his drawing to show the whole thing)… 😛
For some reason the newer rifles are more of an issue than the older ones. Could be from the fact that AF has ben finding part suppliers who make the stuff on the cheap since they are trying to keep the unit retail price from going up. Of course once they get all the parts on the cheap they will raise the prices…
But all of this is discussed in Tagdagger’s post on the subject a few pages back. 😉
You’ll always be Steve to me… 😆
Well, as long as you have his product as your avatar and find all and any reasons to spread his wares without regard to his unsavory actions and buyer be damned warranty policy… 😕
Shouldn’t it be here, Steve? 😕
http://www.talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22771&sid=176e02f42dd72c0e721b6d11b8c1a439
Uh, I’m not Steve. My main question was to tagdagger as to why his product is considered unsafe if he doesn’t modify the trigger group. Also the question asked about stock AF guns misfiring hasn’t been answered yet. I posted the diagram in connect with the questions not with a new aftermarket part. I’m interested in stock at the moment. Thanks though.
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An accurate portrayal would be very enlightning. There is significant movement & shifting of wt from the hammer (striker) release from the saftey block (slide) to sear only support when the saftey is disengaged.
There is a video on here by cygnus with this exact thing. I will try to find it but search if your bored. Cyg?