my last resort..gonna try .25
well the amount of money and time put into this gun to try to get it consistantly accurate ,just isnt happening.I have decided to buy a .25 barrel,not sure when im gonna get it ,maybe a few weeks.I just dont get it with this gun it will shoot dime sized groups at 50 yards , and then boom open up to almost 2 inches,and im shooting with an e-tac reg set at 1800psi.I also tried a 2300 psi reg to no avail.i do notice when i clean barrel and put fresh breech orings,ill get good accuracy but not for long.even with the 1800psi reg and hammer weight it is spitting the 18.1s at 950-60,with extreme valve.now i noticed ill get a little more accuracy with the weight out and only filled to 2200psi pushing 18.1s at 880,870,but still doesnt last long.i am gonna see what this 25 barrel can do with the 2300 psi and kings,and see what happens.if it still doesnt shoot im gonna drive out to cobraairguns and see if i can trade or sell it,im thinkin air arms s510……
All Replies
Reading this thread got me a little depressed at first I must admit, because it seems as if some of you are at the end of your rope considering the AF line as a result of trying everything you can think of to correct this or that (consistency and accuracy being first and foremost). Then it occurred to me and just when I was about to write about my thoughts I read the last post. Bill (moneyshot) was onto the same thing I was generaly speaking.
If we all put out minds together to figure out what the weak link is with this rifle not being able to keep consistency, we should be able to fix it even if some more aftermarket parts need to be made. I mean come on, half of you are natural engineers with extreme machine shops and backgrounds well suited for this task. As a whole, we should be unstoppable!
Maybe if everyone here that knows these guns well posts there setup in great detail, (mods and settings included) and what problems they seem to be having or not, we can assess the situation as a whole and get to the bottom of this. The problem may become easier to see in other words.
Bill, I’m in! Even though I am not one of the more knowledgeable members on this site, I will do my part to contribute and will try my best to analyze these problems with an open objective mindset.
Maybe we need to add more grub screws to the barrel bushings and use a little threadlock as well. Have we fully explored frame flex? I know this may sound ridiculous, but maybe a second set of scope ring mounts is a good idea at least while ruling out other things. ??? Just trying to help.
next,
i propose suggestions to investigate and correct the very flaws that have a lot of the “bad experience” folks have been complaining about.
list these problems, potential causes, and potential solutions.
theoretically, with a little ingenuity we can put these rifles in an accuracy and consistency parameter shared by the top rate english and swedish guns.
im serious, lets get started. why does POI gradually shift, and lets omit parallax because so many forget that.
lets get on it fellas….
bill
To echo with what Roachcreek and Bogman said…
I love my 10 year old .22 Talon SS, it was my first PCP. It has served me well for years and I recently upgraded it to the configuration in my signature (bits from Tony & Adam). It has always been a tack driver and now it is quiet, more efficient, and more ergonomic. All this at a significant investment, but I’m extremely happy with the results. However…
I’d like a high shot count with more power (.25), low noise, a real 2-stage target trigger, and world class accuracy past 40 yards. Getting there in a Condor platform is doable by all means with many of the upgrades I did to my TSS in addition to an Etac-Reg setup. By the time I spend the $ on a base gun and mods to get it there, I’ll be in the territory of an FX Royale 500 w/reg or Edgun which have much higher shot counts per charge with low (single digit) SD, low extreme spreads, and world class accuracy.
I am not giving up on AF, I’ll keep my TSS as my go-to gun around the house for pesting for which it is extremely effective, but the Royale 500 w/reg will be my next gun for field hunting & pesting, and long distance target shooting with a shot count in the 70-90 range. No tinkering necessary out of the box.
Now if I ever decide to take on coyotes with a PCP and need much higher FPE, then I’ll definitely revisit the proven Condor platform and Tony will be the first person I call.
I agree w/ Roachcreek: if you’re looking for performance (with a power limit), go for Air Arms, FX or Daystate.
While the AF guns can be plenty accurate; it takes plenty of time and tinkering. My Condor .22 ate enough of my time; trying to get great groups with a hi flo valve is too much hassel. So, it’s a complete rethink: Send the gun to Tony to tune, swap it to .25 and gear it up for what it does best-power. Yeah, accuracy will drop a bit, but to spit out heavies in 53-73gr or better will fill a niche absent with the AA and FX; it’ll kill larger game and those target zones are larger anyway.
Giving up on AF is probably not warranted, so explore and follow the tips all these guys are offering.
I’ll keep the Condor, but it’s a lot easier to deal with since there is an AA s510 and FX Royale 500 ready to grab and shoot; there’s no pressure to adjust it and no frustration-it’s like working on an old car you don’t need to drive but has the potential to be very useful and satisfying.
People…..
It is a hobby
You are suppose to have more then ONE airgun.
If you buy a pick up truck and expect it to drive as smooth as a Bentley, you just don’t understand the purpose of the pick up truck.
But with .22 or .25 cal 24″ barrel it is consistent and accurate.
I use talon bottle and valve with standart spring.
cheers
Markus
Kinda in line with this…new thread…
Last resort…Regulator
PowderBurner,
You have a lot of good points in your post.
The Condor is indeed a good powerful gun with reasonable accuracy.
It, the Condor, does a lot of things well, but not as good as other rifles like the FX’s, AA’s and Daystates, and it never will. But they will never have the power that the Condor can obtain, particularly a modded Condor.
Some like the black gun thing, but having owned and made a living with those guns, I guess I regard that as a thrill factor for the juvenile crowd. I like nice walnut and blued steel personally, but it is up to the individual I suppose.
It is not a FX Royale, AAS410/510 or a Airwolf. They are $1100. to $1600. guns, they shoot much more consistantly, comfortalby and with better accuracy and as a general rule not quite as much power. And they do it with a point of impact that does not need to be corrected every other time you use the rifle.
With the AA S410 I had, I knew that everytime I picked it up to make a difficult shot, it would perform and shoot to the same point of impact as it did the week before. My Fx is the same way, the accuracy of both of those guns astounds me. When I need something dead, I need it dead right now, and as a result I have been moving to rilfes that are more consistant at stopping hearts on the first shot, so if I miss, I know it was me, and not a fickle gun.
My Condor never shot as well as either of those guns, but my Condor was and is an entry level PCP that costs $500.00. You can have the fun of bolting on a lot of different mods on it and somewhat improve ergomonics, but it will never have the ease of handling or the day in day out consistant accuracy of the FX, AA or the Daystate.
It is what it is, a $500.00 air rifle.
However it is also a airgun that got me into PCP air gunning instead of springers thank god, after a 40 year absence and into the sport with a modern powerful rifle, and for that reason I will most likely have one around for some time to come.
I will never get 130 FPE with a FX, AA or a Daystate, I will never shoot arrows with a FX,AA or a daystate. And I will probably never have a FX, AA or a Daystate with a light and laser on it sitting beside the bedroom window for that coon that keeps me from a good nights sleep. It just seems that one of the attributes of the design is the ability to easily put a laser and light on it and have the power needed to shoot a racoon or larger varmit and the short ranges night shooting demads.
But I have to admit, as I move down the path of more expensive air rifles, my Condor gets shot less and less.
No regrets, except maybe not taking the next step forward a little sooner.
Regards,
Roachcreek
you get out , what you put into them, no you cant sight them in and just shoot them for a month, but if you want to find there sweet spot and keep the gun there , they are the most accurate rifle that you will own.
my gun started out getting a good bore lapping with JB bore paste.the impact changes with the weather, and if i want to shoot dimes at 50 yards i generally need to re zero.
I have done test where i get the gun filled to the psi that i am trying to shoot a pellet at , and the pellet is accurate at this fps, and shoot to zero at say 25 yards, i have a back stop out my back door,where i can open the door and make a shot, i shoot one time a day(unless i get a shot on game) and each day i will shoot one time , and the impact will stay pellet on pellet for several days , then the impact will move around, but after i think 25 shots is the most i have done this i still had a 5/8″ group.
I think the barrels need smoothing out, it helps tremendously. running to 25 will not do a thing for you except change the barrel, the 22 is every bit as accurate as the 25,
You have to learn to troubleshoot these rifles and stay in there sweet spot for peak performance. make sure the top hat is not getting loose
I have not used a regulator yet , but i will get one when i get the time,money etc together, so i cant speak from experience for that, but i can say that without a reg , that my tuned condor can shoot along with any rifle that is made.
When my condor is in it’s tune it amazes me at times. I have been frustrated when the weather changes my tune, and i have to find it again,
Some of my impact changes may be my 99 dollar BSA scope , i hope to get a Hawk in the near future.
I have to go thru allot some times to get the gun back to it’s peak accuracy, but i am talking 1/4″ or less at 50 yards and 3/4” at 100 yards, for the most part the gun will stay under 1” farely easy at 50 yards. and when i am just plinking and making the occasional shot at game i don’t even try to tune it to its peak .
learn how to tune them
don’t be frustrated when you need to re tune
If you cant handle fiddling around with them at times and tuneing them forget it, move on to something twice as expensive. because that is what it will take to beat the condor, and it will not have the versatility, and mod ability.and most likely will not have the power.
I have had my condor at 7 foot pounds with great short range accuracy and to 68 foot pounds with 1/2″ at 50 yard accuracy(32g. at 950), 80 foot pounds with 1” accuracy at 50 yards 32 g. at 1050). and 32 g at 1150 max which is 93 foot pounds but have not shot this outside for groups because of the breaking the sound barrier.i am sure the groups at max would be well over an inch. but for short range bigger critters maybe acceptable ???
each to there own , but i really like the condor, i would like to say i have patience, but i really am just hard headed and i will stick with something until i get it figured out, and i am usually good at figuring stuff out. 😉
Piece of crap , it is not
yes thats what i mean i always have to resight my gun too ,even with a etac.i think it is the way these guns are.well i thought about it ,since i like to mod up my guns i was actually thinking about getting a marauder i can probaly mod that up to be a better shooter ,and its quieter.
i think there is more problems than ppl will admit i have a great gun everyday after i rezero the damn thing if u carry to the woods one little bump and accuracy is gone but if i shoot from the bench this gun rocks .5in groups at 50yds with cromags but what do i know im just a lowly peasant for all the kings here
Check bearings for any looseness.
It is amazing so many have no problems with the AF guns
And others only have problems.
so far after all these years of shooting and tuning these things they r a heaping pile of shit im building a stock now to see what happens but im still pretty sure there shit
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
(frame flex,,)
have not experienced frame flex, i dont try and wrap my gun around a tree while shooting, i dont set a 20lb bag of sand on the rifle while bench shooting, most any rifle needs to be held the same for consistency, and i dont hold the thing like i am about to wrestle it.
(point of impact variation,)
these guns have a huge air supply, and if you want to use the whole supply of air for a huge shot string , your going to see an impact movement. the gun is set up for raw power, you have to change it a bit for best consistency.
get the valve closed quicker and set your valve for the minimum amount of opening to achieve the velocity your after with a decent short string , and instant consistency.
( longer consistant tight string with low Shot deveation)
Pretty much have to go with the regulator