Hey Airgun "smiths" can this barrel be machined to
…the Condor rifles or other AF guns?
http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=238529#238529
It’s .257 and seems to like cast bullets very well. Can the AF valves generate that kind of juice? I’m guessing that’s the limiting factor but it’s a guess. I have no idea.
What say y’all?
Paul
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Now that you guys mention it, I remembered some research I did when wanting to step up form .300 Blackout (Whisper).
I found a good bit written on the 9×39 Russian and the .358 Gremlin.
http://pookieweb.dyndns.org:61129/Groza/9×39/9x39_info.htm
http://www.bfgcartridges.com/358Gremlin.html
The Russians have used the 9×39 to good effect. I chose to just stick with the Blackout and do more with my airguns.
But I wonder does the “force” at which the projectile is engaged while in the barrel have something to do with this? Subsonic powderburners is still about instantaneous compared to air from a valve.
But given the performance of the 250 grain 9mm Russian projectile, could this be a direction to go?
I don’t think caliber means that much, it’s just a scale up or down of the same principles. The PB guys with their 6.5s could be just as accurate with 8mms but they’d have to use more materials to scale it all up.
The nice thing about experimenting with “standard” calibers is that it allows more folks to gather data as the barrels and such are cheaper.
Our biggest problem and also what makes this a cool hobby, is the limitation of air propulsion. We can cast a super aerodynamic bullet but it would probably take a 1 in 4 twist barrel and a 1300fps shot to stabalize it. And that bullet would only be efficient when shot supersonic… we just gave up quiet, shot count and low cost ammo… What we got was a loud, 2 shot max small bore with 150 yard range.
I think we’re going to see the most benifit with bullets designed to optimize sub-sonic aerodynamics, air conservation through better mechanical valves (electronic in a few guns), and more use of light weight materials allowing builders to put material where it does the most good.
Liberty, SYNOPSIS and i were just talking about other calibers in RJ’s original 257 Haley thread: http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24167
I am a 6-6.5-7mm fan. I sold my 700 in 308 Win to get a 6.5mm gun. Much better bullet right off the bat.
But as of right now, no one is really doing any airgun calibers outta the norm. The new big bore by Allen Avrum and Tony Anuzi though is at least 40 cal which i like.
The only guy right now that is doing any odd calibers (something other than 72, 50, 45, 357, 308) is BEAUMONT. He makes a gun in 6.5mm. If i had the money, i would buy it in a heartbeat.
You guys are talking waaaaaaayyyyyyyy above my head on this, but I’m learning a lot.
Since, as was mentioned above, the way the air is used has reached some practical limit under current designs, could the next step in efficiency lie with bullet design?
I know that very few things in PB rifles carry over directly to airguns but has anyone experimented with very high BC projectiles for weight? I’ve always been amazed what is being done with 6, 6.5 and 7mm bullets because of their long, sleek design.
Im sure you’ll get it there Doug.
I too wish big bores got more shots. But when we sit back and think about the concept and inner workings and DESIGN LIMITATIONS of a big bore airgun, they are reaching there PEAK already. And with the traditional KNOCK OPEN valve, when we start talking about pushing 115-150+ gr bullets at 1100 fps, your gonna use up some serious air no matter what valve is designed.
Some genius, and i mean that literally, is gonna have to come up with a whole new concept to make big bores more efficient. Of course, we could always simply lower the power a bit and keep the same fill pressures and that alone would give us more shots. Just not at the power levels that most of us like 😆
I’m willing to try. Your gun in .308 is making 300+ fpe and I’m sure it works or they wouldn’t be building it.
It will make that power with heavier slugs.
I’m looking to get 120 gr up to around 1100 fps for shooting further distances.
I believe u can get the power up there in a 308 but i will guarantee u wont have the accuracy that i get from my guns. Lets see the pics of ur 50yrd groups making 200fpe. Remember power aint SHIT unless its accurate.
All this talk gets me wondering when TT Tony is going to bring his big bore to market?…. It’s been awhile since we’ve heard or seen anything more about it. Hope it’s still simmering away in a corner of his workshop.
Problem I don’t like about traditional bigbores is the limited air supply. I can get 10 shots over 200 fpe
I’m definatly not done. I will make the .308 hit 350-400 fpe. I might have to build my own frame to do it. I’m working on a bigger valve right now between paying jobs and my day job.
Then there’s bumping up the psi. That’s where the larger frame comes in so I can run a heavier hammer and heavier springs.
I have all kinds of ideas just don’t have the time to work on them.
And yes, the Condors are power houses for sure. not bashing them at all. Just as a big bore, i would prefer to see a traditional QB BASED DESIGN being implemented.
EXACTLY DAVE. EXACTLY! It’s more EFFICIENT but think about that. really think about it. Having the air flow right in line and behind a pellet is ONE thing but, trying to push 200 or 300 FPE through the condor valve and breech is a whole nother story. The condors are NOT built to make SUPER POWER. Look at all the reinforcement DOYATAT (doug) put on his condor 308’s frame. The valves on the QB based big bores have bigger port holes and larger pre-chamber as a whole.
Still, I don’t see TOO MANY 200-1100 FPE Condors without some serious REWORK! And i mean SERIOUS! You just don’t hear very much about em
It’s my belief the Condor or Talon works BEST as a small bore gun. I believe the gun would get torn up and battered if you try and push TOO many FPE. The Condor 45 cals came and went. WHY?!
You would be over working the DESIGN of the gun i believe.
And the rule of thumb on 90 degree bends is NO MORE THAN 360 degree which is 4 90’s. We use that rule in the elevator trade at least. It provides the best hydraulic flow if followed.
2 90 degree nends have dead space too.
The condor is a much more efficient design than a barrel over reservoir gun because the air doesn’t have to make the two 90 degree turns before it reaches the pellet, however you are stuck with the dead volume of the ID of the valve stem and the breech.
I believe new valve parts would have to be machined/fabricated to make that kinda power outta a CONDOR. Look how much work went into CYNUS’ condor when he did the big bore change and also Voltar.
I say start with the RIGHT gun in the first place and you’ll be less stressed in the end.
Thanks for the reply. I sent you a PM about another matter, did you get it? You can email me too if you prefer.
learn2flyfish is the call sign and the account is at yahoo.
Paul
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Yes, PB has the option to load extra powder to engrave jacketed rounds. The performance of the 9×39 looks pretty weak to me as accuracy is poor. We’ve got way better places to start when improving or experimenting with airgun projectiles.