Micrometer or standard tank ?
I’m new to Airforce guns, I trying to decide on witch one to get. I’m ordering a Talon SS 12″ barrel in .177 and .22 barrels opt with spin-loc tank with sound-loc. Reading the post in this forum and I’m confused in witch tank to get. Pros and cos please.
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Cool info !
Well according to Air force I’ll be getting it in about 2 weeks from now. I’ll let you know how it shooting and start to tinker a bit also.
If you are looking for the 800 – 900 FPS range, then the standard valve/tank setup is what you want. The adjustment of the top hat allows for fine tuning of the valve to help eliminate wasting air. More often than not, this is not required.
Being able to change port size is fantastic. Imagine shooting at over 1000 FPS with no insert, put in the large insert and now you are at 800 FPS and now replace it with the small insert and you are at 600 FPS. Please be aware that I just pulled these numbers out of the air for illustration. I think you get the idea. You can switch from high flow to standard to micrometer in seconds.
” I tamed it down to the 800-900 range ”
That is ideal, my PCPs and all my airguns shoot their best (most stable) from 850-930 fps. I had accuracy problems when trying to nearing +1000 and up.
I’ve read also that the top hat clearance from bottom of hat to the top of bottle neck is also adjustable on the standard bottle value. I would guess to limit the other end of the pressure. But I don’t like the idea that there maybe a gap between the top hat and breech. When fire isn’t there a slap that occurs ? I notice in the drawing plans of the gun there is 2 or 3 separate parts from the fire spring to the valve top, I would think no gaps anywhere the better, Newton’s 3rd Law.
Talon Tunes new valve stem doesn’t have this adjustment, maybe he doesn’t like that idea also ?
Nobody else seems to mind. Most everybody on this site is going in the opposite direction with power. But just so we drag the original topic along, my TSS is an old one that I think was “custom” built. It came with what turned out to be a high flow valve. It was shooting 16+ grain .177 pellets at 1240 FPS. Way to hot for that caliber. By putting an 0-ring behind the top hat, I tamed it down to the 800-900 range.
I am in the process of rebuilding and customizing my TSS. I am going to install Talon Tunes new valve stem where you can change out the ports, effectively giving you a high flow, standard or micrometer valve all in one.
Basicily what I am saying is you can tone it down a lot easier than you can crank it up.
Back to the 46M. There was a guy on the Yeller forum that was making a wire stock that bolted up on the inside of the grip in the adjustment slots.
Hea , your getting me thinking………but I do have an old benji 317 pumper, about 45 years old and still pumping.
Stock info http://davegcustomstocks.com/ucizh46gazellepage.html
Looks pricey …….
We’re really getting off the topic 😯 😆
Yea, I would like to pick up another 46M, convert it to a carbine and add this.
http://www.innova-airguns.com/VIP-Superior-Izzy-with-8-Power-Strokes_c3.htm
Might be a right interesting plinker.
When you go big bore, you definately need a compressor because most of them are running at 4500 PSI, although you can build one to run at 1000 PSI. That is where I hope to go.
If so I wish I got the 60 instead, the 61’s so easy to forget the shot count and dry fire………. The 46m, yes that is what a gun should be, have a Morini 162 ei @ $1,800.00 just as accurate. Somebody made it a rifle (CARBINE) really cool http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=22569&sid=9ae77b23f4dac899ecc58554ff0f90a6
I looked at the shoebox it’s still expensive, I need more PCP to fill before this investment……..
Izzy 46M. It is a real nice shooting pistol, as I am sure you have noticed. Anything better is going to cost more than a grand. I have thought about putting the multi-pump mod in it, but I will likely wait and pick up another one and mod it.
With the Edge, I do not see a point of having another 10 meter rifle. Although not quite as accurate as an Olympic type rifle, it is still real accurate and I have improved the trigger some. I am also getting ready to drop an 18″ barrel in it and have a longer tank made. I use it as my plinking and mini-sniping rifle. I have seriously thought of picking up a 60 or 61, but I am trying real hard not to be a collector.
I am setting my TSS up for small, furry woodland creatures. I have a 12″ .22 Eun Jin barrel I am putting in it right now. I also have a 26″ .177 HW barrel for it.
These three are keeping me satisfied for now. They are so easy to change around to suit you needs and moods. After I set up a compressor, I will likely start looking at big bore, but that will be at least a couple more years down the road.
ON THE EDGE, I appreciate your time and experience……and will take all that into consideration !
There isn’t to much talk lately on or about the micrometer tank, not as consistent as the standard one. Accuracy maybe an issue with micrometer tank. I may need to get them both and play around a bit.
IZZY 60-61 ? I have a 61 & 46m love the gun !! Did you do Russ Best Mod on the 60 ? It made minds shoot better, the only thing I didn’t do is the o-ring on the pellet probe and stock extension. My crony after mod 10 shot adv 472 fps, sd 19.2, es 6.24 with Crossman hunters 8.4 gn, before mod 435 fps adv, almost 40 fps faster. If you haven’t done so here’s the info :
“IZH-60 Tune Tips
[ The Airgun Letter Forum]
Posted by Russ Best on January 17, 1999 at 09:18:17:
For those of you who have access to either a machine shop- or at least a lathe, there are a couple things you can do to wring out a little more power and add more smoothness to your little “Black Russian”. This info should also apply to the IZH-61. This info consists of two basic things to be done.
1. Making a longer spring guide.
2. Sealing the bolt to the breech diameter.
You will need acetal(Delrin®) rod for the guide. Machine the diameter of the delrin rod to fit the springs inside diameter so that you have a contact but NOT press fit. This may be a diameter of about .545, but can vary with each spring. Make this turned diameter 2 3/4″ long and radius the end 1/16th to 1/8 th radius. Turn this machined piece of delrin around in the chuck, and in the back end, drill/bore a .475 diameter hole into the delrin to a depth of 2 inches. Carefully press fit this tubular piece onto the the original spring guide. HINTS: in the remaining solid end (radiused) drill a 1/16th” hole thru, so that trapped air can escape when pressing on the guide extension. ALSO: application of Home super Glue on the stock metal guide piece will help to keep it permanently in place. Sealing the breech. You will need to remove the bolt to do this properly. The bolt is retained by a stop plug at the end of the receiver, held in by a Phillips head screw on top. Once the bolt is removed, knock out the longest pin with a pin punch. Place bolt in lathe with bolt nose facing out. Measure 1/4″ from the shoulder of the bolt nose, and machine a groove into the bolt about .010 wider than a 003 O ring. Machine the slot so that the diameter will be .107 to .109 inside the slot. Deburr the slot edges with emery cloth, then slip a 003 O ring over the bolt until it snaps into the groove. Re-assemble the long pin into the bolt, and the bolt back into the gun. When re-assembling the gun, coat the guide, spring and piston and seal with a light coating of Moly grease. You can even thin this out a bit by mixing the grease with Beeman spring oil, as this gun does not respond well to heavy lubes. An additional note is that you can slip a nickel into the piston as a little extra weight if you are trying to wring out that last fps of velocity from the gun. Should you do this, I recommend gluing it in place- surfaces should be clean and degreased prior to doing this. Install the spring after the nickel is in. A washer of appropriate size may be substituted. The benefits are a smoother cycle and usually there is no more spring/cocking link foot drag across the springs coils, because of the longer guide. Some of these guns will gain up to 40 fps too. One last thing you can do is to increase the length of pull on the stock. Do this by drilling and tapping a couple new hole in the stock tube, at the proper angle. I usually make the first hole about 3/4″ from the original. than an additional hole 1 1/4″ from the rearmost original hole. The tap size is 5M-x0.8 thd. BUT- a 10-32 tap will also work. The screw will be a little sloppy with the 10-32 though, until you tighten the knob on the stock adjuster.
One additional note concerning the tune. The compression cylinder needs to me lightly honed on some of these guns, and all sharp edges should be stoned/deburred. I covered this aspect months ago, when I posted tuning info on this gun. HTH.
Russ “
I don’t do CO2 myself because of the cost, hassle of filling and temperature issues. I use the infamous AF hand pump for mine. It takes a little time, but the hassle and cost of tanks is too prohibitive at this time. Maybe in a couple of years I might set up a shoebox compressor.
If you take a standard and put an o-ring behind the top hat you will reduce power and air usage. I have a high flow valve on my TSS and by putting an o-ring behind the top hat, I can drop the velocities of my .177 Eun Jins from about 1100 FPS to around 800 FPS. Numbers are pretty stable and shot count goes way up.
In earlier parts he tests the micro and standard using HPA. It will help you figure out which would suit your desires.
Accuracy is an obsession with me. I mostly shoot an Edge and an Izzy, but I am customizing my TSS which I hope to have back up and running soon.
Hay, how did you get part 10 to open ? Thanks for all the replies. The cost to refill co2 in Hawaii is expensive, to refill a scuba is $20. It sucks but I still use a pump for all my PCP’s.
“What Good Is 500+ FPE If You Can’t Hit What You Are Shooting At!” ———– I strongly agree !!
Sorry it took me so long to get back to you. Read through this before you decide.
I’ve decide on the Micro-meter tank, and maybe getting a standard tank if I’m going to increase the barrel length in the future.
I’m thinking with a 12″ barrel how much velocity can you get on the top end above 670 fps in .177 or 560 fps in .22 ? Wouldn’t you be just wasting air ?
I’m comparing this with a micrometer tank, some ones quote
” The average velocity of about 560 f.p.s. produces right around 10 foot-pounds in .22 caliber.
Expect about 20 percent less energy in .177, which would mean that an 8-grain pellet
might travel an average of around 670 f.p.s.
If you shoot at distances of 25 yards or less, there are well over 100 accurate shots available in the new tank. ”
Lets say on the .177 @ 670 fps micrometer tank, but on a standard tank increasing fps to let say 800 – 900 fps how many consistent shot on one fill ? Or setting the top hat to get 20 consistent shot what would the velocity be like ?
Can a micrometer tank top hat clearance be adjusted also ?
Sorry for all the questions !
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Great! Have fun!