Regulated or not!?
I have a condor ss and I want a better shot count and I would also like to increase my accuracy at further ranges. Currently have about 1 inch pattern out to around 55-60 yards. I have found my optimum power wheel setting for shots and accuracy as well as fill pressure. Everything I’ve done without a chrony so it’s close but not perfect. I am wondering if I should go the regulator route, or buy a chrony and mess with the top hat? What do you guys recommend for me? I’ve been contemplating for months, and money isn’t the issue just want my best setup because I hunt at least 3-4 times a week and would like to be more confident every time in my further range shots 65yds +.
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I have found that allot of pellets shoot really well in the 800’s. If you can get away from the whole power thing. And tune down out of the 900’s
I want a cricket so badly. I just recently got the chrony. The 20 shots I was taking with such great consistency was 1100 fps -880 since than I have tuned by just adjusting tophat and putting an oring behind it. 44 shots starting at 2500-2000 psi. Power wheel start at 4-4. I think if I fill a little more I will get a few more shots in this range but I’m not sure I like filling to 2500. Anyhow my first shot was 822 and last shot was 797. Extreme spread of 32. Average of 820 fps and a standard deviation of 8. It’s dead balls accurate but I am shooting kodiaks and I think I want to put them at an average of 840. I think they group the best there ( out of my gun) as well as from 960-1000 fps. But the groups at 840 are very nice I’ll have to shoot and measure
you know , if you compare the air force to say , the cricket
the cricket seems to have amazing consistency, the guys seem to shoot one clip groups which is 12 shots i think, just amazing consistency , they can just keep putting rounds into one ragged hole,
know the tuned and broken in air force can do this, i have been able to hold together 10 round at 50′ for this kind of accuracy , but the gun has to be in perfect tune , right on the curve to keep this together.and only for one 10 shot group, then refill to exzact psi, take settle shots ,one or two , then ready for next 10 shot group.
the cricket can do this for several groups, effortlessly it seems
Well this is do to a fine built rifle, with a good barrel and a good regulator.
Ok, take a nicely broken in air force and put a good regulator on it , and you have this consistency
i want to regulate a bottle , but for now , i can tune my condor for a short string and it does all i need it to,
but Man, if you didnt want to tune and fuss, sure would be nice to have a regulator. My idea is to have two bottles , one regulated for say 14 grain pellets in the low 900’s, the other , my stock modified valve condor bottle, to adjust from high power to low power or what ever is needed.
leadlofter didn’t think you had a chrony, its allot of fun, and a pain in the butt at the same time with these rifles .
I shoot off caldwell sand bags and a heavy bench, there is little to no human error when i shoot for groups.
I just filled my scuba so I’ll be chronying and testing kodiak .21.14 and eun Jin 32. I’m gonna post up some pics to those groups are nice! What do you shoot off?
Seems he has done an exceptional job tuning to 20 shots to not have a chronograph ,
here are some examples of what i have been able to accomplish with my condor .
i can hold together 10 shots to under 1/2″ at 50 yards with minimal impact variation, but the impact is changing after like 5 shots.
5 shots under 1/4″ for 50 yards ( all i can manage with out showing variation in the groups )
this is all very precise tuning and at peak of curve for these shots.
i have a target that i was fooling around and just kept shooting , i think i put 38 shots into about an 1″ at 50 yards, with some flyers, was shooting crosman hollow points, if i would have sorted for this , i could have beat this group. i will look for the target
some targtes for comparison of variation etc.
un reged, condor 24″
these next 3 target are all shooting at the same point of aim
10 shots
20 shots
30 shots
so basically if you look at these groups you will see that the group did not change for the 10 to 20 to 30 much at all except for the flyers.but i could see the impact center move from high left, then center, then lower and to the right ,with the psi change in the tank, not allot , but this, and pellet to pellet variation gives this group
could have beat these groups with sorted pellets (i roll Them) just shot as quick as i could load also.
target of the whole experiment
this is an example of a best group at 50 yards from my condor
10 shots
5 shots
I just can not touch my 5 shot groups with any more of a shot string, not 6 or 7 , with the condors hugh tank , i , anyway cannot do it.
((((So will i be able to beat my 10 shot group with a reg,)))???
by getting my shot velocity variation down , pellet impact variation due to velocity difference ????
this is with jsb pellets ,
this is like 5or 6 shots , then refilling the tank to the start psi , taking a couple of settling shots then continuing the target , this is what i have to do to keep impact variation to the bare minimum
How are you resting the gun?
Some air guns seem to only want to rest on a soft palm, facing upward, even on a bench. Others do really well with bags or even socks, filled with rice. Sand-filled bags have not worked well for me. For field hunting, I’m getting some good results with a Caldwell Magnum Deadshot Fieldpod. Bipods work for many. Here, the ground is frozen, muddy during cold seasons and tick, ant infested when it’s warm. Either way, I’m not laying on the ground with a bipod, hence the fieldpod. The Magnum allows you to sit or stand; it’s heavier and more stable. Useful for powderburners, too.
Make sure you are looking straight down the middle of the scope to reduce parallax effects.
The reg helps you keep the “sweet spot”. When you’re shooting, at the best part of a shot string, it’s handy to put shots through a chrony. If the gun/pellet combo does best at, e.g. 890 fps, then you want to either set a reg to deliver this, or tinker with the fill, top hat, valve, inserts, etc. The chrony will come in handy. For your use, you want maximum speed without losing accuracy, since you want longer ranges. I’d tune for the JSBs as they are preferred by the widest number of shooters.
Another consideration- Talk to Tony and get him to tune it. Then, you know the gun is good and it’s up to you to work it. Good tuners live and breathe these guns. They are faster than you or I, have the tools they need and can save a lot of time. If it were me, since time is scarce and I don’t want to spend hours tinkering, I’d contact Tony.
Plus, get a ProChrono from Competition Electronics; data is always good. If your accuracy goes to crap, you can check pellet speed to steer you in the right corrective direction. If the speed is fine, scope, mounts, stock, rail, rests, etc. are worth examining. If the speed goes awry, the air handling or barrel needs a look-see. There are tons of posts in the air gun community and you can see how important it is to know the pellet’s speed.
I’ll be looking into all that for sure. I think my next investment will be a chrony. I’ll try to get my stand. Deviation as low as possible and work on shot strings from there. I want a reg simply because my rifle is mostly for hunting not shooting around. I like to shoot but I hunt more often and when I’m in the field I’d rather not have guesswork for a bell curve and such. Currently I have it tuned as flat as I can without a chrony for about 20 or so shots at 55 yards poi change is about 3/4 of an inch from start to finish of my string so it has been the best setup for my hunting needs. I figure once I get the chrony I can start messing with the top hat and pw settings to get them optimal. So I’ll wait on the reg to see how that suits me until I do everything else you mentioned.
By a good set up I mean a rifle with a decent scope, good proven barrel, parts that are well maintained, polished and lubed appropriately, tuned to at least a level of no more than 30fps variance over ten shots, shooting technique and hold is correct, correct pellet choice etc.
Shooting for groups at 100 yards plus does require a well set up rifle. Using a reg’ takes a hell of a lot of the work out of achieving good accuracy at those kind of ranges.
What’s a good setup?
With a good set up you should be doing sub 1″ groups at 100 yards. All the mods in the world won’t help accuracy if the shooter hasn’t got the technique down pat. All depends on what you consider acceptable hunting accuracy. Given your current grouping at 50 yards I’d stay around that range for shooting live stuff.
I have found that my best pellet is the Kodak extra heavy 21.4 .22 pellet is my best pellet and I have it setup right now shooting a flat 27 shot string from 2250 down to around 1800. I’d say my average group is probably 1 inch at 60 yards, 40 yards I shoot 22 blanks so I can hear see them explode at about a 70% hit rate. Anything 35 yards and under its same hole damn near. I want long distances to kill rabbit, squirrel, Dove, and other small game from ranges up to no more than 100 yards or right at it, or am I trying to get more out of it than I can without spending another grand
A reg’ does improve accuracy once you start shooting 100 yards plus. Unless of course you’ve managed to tune your rifle to shoot a good flat string, which is entirely do-able.
At 50 yards it won’t do a whole bunch. It may tighten up a bit if you are getting particularly wide groups, but at that range I’d be looking at the other things mentioned by Rob.
Basically a reg’ is a good idea if you want to shoot long range with pellets but don’t want to fine tune the rifle.
And whatever set up/rifle you have, a chrony is an absolute must have.
Accuracy tips…
Try different pellets…
Check the crown ..recrown if needed.
try different holds, dont grip the gun so tight
Try different speeds on pellets… some pellets group better at different speeds
The reg gives the impression of accuracy because it takes a lot of guesswork out. I love my regged Talons. Best purchase I ever made for them.
What kind of accuracy are you getting now?
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I mean at 820 fps I still get 15 fpe at 100 yards. I want to test a shot string at 840 I think they are a tad bit more consistent in accuracy at that speed