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“Definition: (DOD, NATO) The maximum distance at which a weapon may be expected to be accurate and achieve the desired result.”
You really need to define your terms to get the answer you want. The US Army says the .308 has a maximum effective range of 800 meters. The USMC says the same round has an effective range of 1000 meters. Note the slight change in nomenclature there, those numbers are not actually in conflict.
If your usage does not include hunting due to legal concerns, what is the desired result? If it is illegal hunting of small game and you just want the game to die, there will be an answer. If the desired result is a group of holes no more than an inch or 24.5mm CTC in a target at a certain range, there will be another answer.
If you don’t define what your desired result is; there will be endless answers! Now, I’ve shot a fair number of air rifles from .177 pumps to .87 cannons and I think I’ve got a handle on how hard it is to be reliable accurate at long range. Some of the folks here are clearly better shots than I can even aspire to be. I’ve shot a bunch of sub-MOA groups at 100 yards but those were all with custom made air rifles of larger caliber and much higher power than any AF gun in .22 could produce. Even with a superlative gun and a comfortable and repeatable set-up, it is very difficult to shoot two sub-MOA groups back to back (at 100 yards). At least for me. Some shooters are good enough to do it with a mirror and resting the gun over their shoulder as they face away from the 100-150 yard distant target.
To answer what I think your original question was: I think the maximum effective range of a .22 Custom Condor is 75 yards. That assumes that the desired result is taking small game with 80% one shot kills.
Yep, I know it’s the same with Greece and I believe Italy too. Only up to .22 cal. airguns – no power restrictions, but ILLEGAL to hunt with them!! Now that’s messed up!
Why would they let you possess, plink and target shoot with a 50 or 80ft-lb .22 airguns but not let you hunt with them? That doesn’t make any sense at all. They rather you mess up your body and get a drug addiction than hunt with an airgun. What morons come up with these laws? Do they have a Slogan too, that reads:
“Feel the urge to hunt? Don’t! Just grab 4 grams of any narcotic drug you like and get high instead!” Unbelievable..
That’s right.
We don’t have the same laws as UK ( there’s no power limit) but we have a caliber limit (.22) and its illegal to hunt with air guns (jail).
I’m not sure about the drug law but i think you can have only 4 grams.
I’ll find out… If so i will have a lot of parties on my own 😆 😆 .
Zegroton-Tudo bem?
They let you have a .22 but not .25? Thats lame. I heard in portugal you can have any drug as long as its under 5 grams. You can have 5 grams
of methanphetamines but not a .25? We all know wich has more potential for negative effects. Every goverment has ass backwards laws.
-Anthony
The Condor would not have problems. Plain and simple. As a 10 yr old kid I could consistently shoot birds at 75 yards with nothing more than a Benji 397 and iron sights. What do you think you could do with 6, 7 or even 10 times that energy and better accuracy to boot.
A .22 Eun Jin at max, stock Condor energy would still be carrying about 25 ft lbs at 150 yards. More than even most magnum springers at the muzzle. Hold over between 2 and 3 feet. Good head shots on fairly large game would still bring them down at 250+ yards. I’m not condoning anything. Just stating facts.
my buddy is dropping jack rabbits at 140 yards with 18 inch talon. i can do it out to 90 yards with my ss, see no reason why a condor would have problems doing it?
The 158 yard shot talked about on airgunadvice was a jack rabbit at 158 yards shot off hand with a AirWolf .223 80 FPE model. This shot was made in the Deserts of Cali.
Here in Central Texas, we have a lot more longer range shots than close in. It’s hard to stalk when the only thing between you and your game is “AIR”. No tall grass, unless you consider 1 inch tall. No trees, no rising and rolling land. You have to learn to shoot long distance or go the the house. I regularly shoot field rats at 80 to 100, even 110 yards with my talon ss with 18″ bbl, and condor valve. Most are head shots!
A rabbit would be a gift shot!!! WooHoo!!! Hard to miss. Well except on really windy days! 😀
For what it’s worth, I get 1/4 to 3/8″ groups with the bbl rested across a base ball cap resting on the top of the car. No bench rest.
Mike
i was using .28 gr EJ’s in a fully stock condor at 150 bar.for 20 shots it sends them screaming at 900 fps while only using 25 bar…..
plus this was in typical hunting condition’s no bench rest or shit like that.
so I think it is pretty good.
1′-1.5′ could be easily achieved.
all my shots were in a straight line up and down except one flyer.
so if i had a proper rest and no wind i think i “could” do it
not promising anything or making any arguements
cheers
Do we skeak English ot what? I never disputed that a rabbit can or cannot be taken at 150 yards.
Try 1″ – 1.25″ at 100 y.
That would be really bad shooting, eh…
WTF are you talking about? What advice? Read it over again.
Thanks for clarifying what small game really is.
If you can’t nail a pigeon at 100 yards with a high power air rifle, perhaps you should find some other hobby.
Exactly!!! I think that is what I already said before. I said that it’s not like I hunt at those distances because it negates the whole purpose of an airgun. Did I say that?!?!?!?!?!?!?
If you don’t know then don’t shoot.
Gee, each time I post a response there is always someone who attacks it for no reason and turns it upside down. Shit!
Ambush Hunter: Noone is disputing that a rabbit cannot be taken with a Condor at 150yds, but that is not the norm. We heard about this once from 1 person that got a prairie dog @ an alledged 158yds. Fine, but we don’t see or hear that over & over from tens or hundreds of people that own an AF gun or high powered PCP.
If you are getting 2-3″ CTC groups at 100yds that’s great! It’s pretty darn good and you should consider yourself a very good shot. You have a gun that ‘s working well for you. At 150yds however you ‘d probably get 5″+ groups if you ‘re lucky. That is enough to miss the rabbit entirely or wound it in the foot or thigh which will cause it to get away and probably die later from infection after suffering. I was taught good sportsmanship and to always try to achive quick humane kills. Besides, I like recovering what I shoot at. I ‘m not implying you don’t feel the same way, but you make it sound like everyone should go shoot rabbits at 100-158yds. I ‘m sorry but I would not take that advice.
If you aim high at a 45deg. angle with the ground, your pellet may travel 250-300yds and kill a bird but that doesn’t mean that is the effective range of the Condor. It’s the distance in which you can shoot comfortably & accurately to achieve good groups, usually 1″ for small small-game (like squirrels, birds, etc.) and 2″ maximum CTC for medium small game (rabbit & up). 2-3″ @ 100yds that you are achieving is excellent, but I personally would not shoot small game at that range unless I know I can get around 1.5″ groups consistently (not once or twice out of 20 groups, most of the time) – worse case scenario.
That’s just me and the advice other experienced and some well known airgun hunters have given me which I found to make perfect sense if I want to go home with something in my game bag. Besides, if I can’t get within 60yds of a rabbit, squirrel, etc. then I might as well stop calling myself a hunter. Hunting is mainly about stalking, and airgunning is really about getting “up close” and shooting very accurately because our guns don’t have “tons” of energy down range.
I ‘d use my .22LR at 100yds and .22 Hornet or .243 at 150. The chances of killing the prey with 1 shot at 100 to 150yds are slim with an airgun, even the Condor. If you do accomplish it 1 out of 10 or 20 times, then that is not your effective range. It would be if you accoplished it 8 out of 10 times.. Afterall, what are we trying to accomplish? 1 shot, 1 kill, right? Closing the distance between you and your prey is what airgun hunting is all about, and a skill that is admired by many firearm hunters.
My neighbor last month walked over after I had killed a 12lb groundhog with a shot in the head at 24yds with my 14fpe Springer (.177). He said “man”, I can’t even bring those suckers down at 60yds with my .22LR..” That’s because he ‘s not hitting the head or the heart/lung vitals which is a must on such a tough animal, and it’s not “his” effective range. I told him “don’t worry I ‘ve lost a couple of g-hogs at 30yds with body shots using my .22LR until I practiced more and learned how to shoot them in the head”. I would never dream of shooting a 10-15lb G-Hog with a Condor at 100yds, unless I knew I could place that pellet within 1″ of his eye or ear.
i would buy a .25 Condor but in Portugal is not allowed 🙁 🙁
The .22 Air Force Condor will be just fine
TM2 in my gun today showed no effects of supersonic flight. I shot a 5 shot group at 25 metres that was half inch, and every shot cracked like a rifle. In my factory its damm loud !
I shot 3 other groups and everytime got raggd one hole groups. I chrono’d the pellets and i got 1250 Max, i was shooting the groups at around 1215 FPS. The TM2’s give higher velocity’s than lead.
This was a quick test mind you, and i will try to do some outdoor testing tommorow at 50 + metres. But so far these pellets are the best i have tried. The Eun jins have produced half inch groups at 30 Metres, but i think these TM2 will do much better. They are identical to daystate rangers only made from an alloy not lead. In fact i would bet daystates are made by Prometheous and branded daystate.
Rabbit size game at 150 yards? Hell yes! Especially on a very calm day.
Here is a 3 shot group at 100 y. when my Condor was a pure bone stock .22 And that was when I was still learning the rifle.
Now, you can blow away 1 gallon water jugs at 150 yards with .25 Condor all day long. The 31gr Kodiak still has 26 FPE at that range. Amazing. There was a guy with the Air Ranger who took down either a rabbit (correct me if I am wrong) or a prairie dog at 158 yards. I’ve read about it on the Airgunadvice somewhere. Now, that’s what I call airgun precision. Another guy was killing beer bottles at 200 yards with I believe it was AA PCP, there is a video of that.
So, a rabbit size animal at 150 y. – who is kidding? Been there, done that. It’s not that I hunt at those kind of distances. To me, it negates the whole purpose of an air gun. But the guns are capable, especially tuned ones.
the tm2 prometheus can handle the supersonic flight? His accuracy is not affected?
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I suppose we all have our own interpretation of “effective” and its likely it changes depending on what your objective is. I can “effectively” hit a 10 inch paper plate @ 200 yards 8 shots out of ten. “Effective” as applied to dispatching game is 10 shots out of 10… in this case I’m “effective” out to 60 to 70 yards. IMHO 8 out of 10 is not “effective” when shooting at game. A note on airguns in europe and more specifically Italy. Airguns are limited to 7.5 joules (5.5 ft lbs). Airguns exceeding this power factor require a firearms license and are not subject to any power limitation. Hunting is not allowed with air guns or .22 caliber rimfire. Minimum hunting caliber is .223/5.56mm… but more importantly if you are rastafarian you may posses up to 1 kilogram of marijuana, for religious observances, all others are limited to 10 grams for personal use.