Silencer discussion
Also, don’t forget the IRS.
That was a LOT of money made in a short time
You already mentioned ATF…, thare was also a lot of nice silencers made without a class III
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I looked around for the sticky, I found the one that is about the states not being able to call an air gun a fire arm, but I couldn’t find the revised law about silencers.
many, many people still use that Beeman wright up as a scare tacit and swear that it is the word of god him self.
that’s all I’m saying about brad, I Do not like the fact that he keeps submitting designs to them for something they do not have control over, what happens when they get sick of it and decide hay these people keep bugging us lets go ahead and bring them into the firearm thing, make some money off it and make every one get a serial number and a tax stamp? I’ll tell you what will happen… we will all be fucked and braking the law, and brad would be charging an arm and a leg because he holds a class 2 and can generate these serial numbers. which is why I think he keeps trying to get them to regulate them.
I for one wouldn’t care if I never got to make another one for a customer, altho I do enjoy it and it keeps me in pellets the sad thing is our beloved hobby would be no more for most of us, as in no more back yard plinking we would all have to run to the woods or worst the range. I for one as I’m sure 99% of us here have plenty of powder burners to do that with, guess what… I haven’t pulled the trigger on any of them loud assed things in about a year but I shoot at lease a tin a week in the back yard and wile it is perfectly legal were I’m at not a sole knows I’m doing it, I would like to keep it that way.
ok rant over and I’m climbing down from my soap box.
It’ s in my favorites some where. I have a ton. WOK posted it here on the forums some where 😕
I never can keep up! 😆
You Know, Old Beeman wrote an article years ago that scared the crap out of any one wanting a LDC. but like with a lot of things, Beman didn’t get the facts before Grand Standing. Just one of the cases where he did a lot more harm than good.
Now about Air Force being so worried. The SS has a built in shroud. The frame it’s self. And by the strict letter of the law, the end cap is a baffle.
However not being in the type of business Brad is in, The ATF isn’t looking down their throat.
With Brad being a legal manufacturer, he has a lot to keep straight. The ATF can be rough.
For years I owned an Archery Shop and small Gun Store. I had a lot to worry with as well. And a crap load of paper work as well.
My point is this. Brad manufactures suppressors. So he is scrutinized much more closely than the average citizen. Just as I was at the Gun Shop. I had a very small Shop.
Many private collectors have in their possession many more firearms that I did in the shop. The BATF could come to my Shop any time and demand the paper work, for years past. Same for Brad.
They could even come to my home, 24-7-365. Without a warrant or so much as a by your leave. None ever did. In fact I got along with the BATF guys just fine. But the rules are a bit different for anyone in the business.
When you live and work in one world, it is hard to see how things around you can be in a different light.
Now Brad has stated that he had to register two buckets to keep baffles in. I’ll just about bet Air Force doesn’t have to register a thing to store their end caps. But they are still a baffle. but not Reg’ed by BATF.
Nor do I have to register a bucket in my shop to store Nuts, screws, or washers. Yet washers are what many of us use for the baffles.
It is all a matter of common sense, degree, and what is called intent under the law. Something one person one who is on one side of the coin might forget.
If you are a Felon, breaking the law with your air gun, intent on breaking the law, or aiding others to break the law. You have or will have a problem.
The case quoted by Beeman, was a man who was a several time convicted felon. and a known Gun smuggler. The Fed’s use the suppressor laws to nail him. Sort of like using the Tax code to convict a Mafia Boss. (Remember that one?) But old Beeman left that little tid bit out!
The Fed’s are not out to get us. We live in rough times. There are a lot of bad guy’s out there. The Fed’s work for us. The American Citizen. They work hard and put their butts on the line to do their jobs. They are not interested in spending thousands of tax payers dollars prosecuting law abiding citizens enjoying their Air Guns when there are real Criminals out there that need to be locked up. Fed’s have pride too. No self respecting Fed. wants to walk into the office and get the rigging from their fellow officers for taking down and going to court over a big bad Air Gunner. They would be the joke of the department! It is only Fear and fantasy for anyone to think so.
Yes it can happen. You can be a horses Ass if one of them ever questions you. And you just may piss him off enough for him to make a lot of trouble for you. It happens. Sometimes we get back what we put in!
This hobby can be a lot of fun. As long as you dont’ analize it to death. 😉
Mike
Amen Brother Mike!
also do have a link to the revisions to section 921 of title 18, United States Code? I have the The National Firearms Act saved and have read the revision, bit I wasn’t smart enough to save it and now I’m having a hell of a time finding it.
In addition, I would like to remind every one that the law was re written a little over two years ago. Before that, It didn’t include the Without modification wording.
Wok has included it in the sticky section some time ago. It is there for all to read.
And I don’t give a damed what New Mexico says. The Federal Gov. says out right, that No State or municipality can deem a air power gun a Fire Arm. No doubt, that would help a great deal in court.
Yeah, I know. You might get a pissed off ATF agent that might arrest you. But Being arrested is not convicted. A lot of not so good cops love to arrest without just cause hoping that something will stick. Don’t make it a viable case. I’m ex-leo. And I can tell you. In Court, the Law is the Law. Not the Cop or Agent. They don’t’ get to write the laws. No matter how much they might want to. As far as I am concerned, any Law Enforcement Officer who would intentionally attempt to have some one incarcerated who did not break the Law, is no more than a Criminal him or her self. Pure and simple. And there is nothing I hate more than a crooked officer of the Law. It makes a sham of every thing Law Enforcement stands for.
Mike
I would think It would be difficult to get a letter of approval from the BATF if for no other reason that they HAVE NO AUTHORITY over Any Thing AIR GUN!!!
They them selves are not Authorized by the federal government to make such an authorization. The very act of repeatedly trying to get them to look at the Air Gun industry and its products is a very BAD idea for all air gunners. The law is very well written as is. If different people keep this up, they will have to get involved. It is a given. Is that what you want. After all It is the Citizens asking isn’t it? It would give them a good excuse to put air guns under their policing.
Why in hell do you guy’s want to keep poking a sleeping Giant?
The law states “be able to be used on a fire arm without modification”
Plain English. A Air Gun Shroud would have to be modified to be used on an Fire Arm. Hell. So would a potato! Or a stright Lawn More Muffler. (They will supress a fire arm a heck of a lot more than the 1 db. required to be illegal!)
Enough is enough!!! I get tired of both politicians and the liberal public wanting more and more laws to cover laws that are already on the books.
It’s starting to smell a lot like Britain here!
Read the Law’s for your selves, and get a set of Balls! We are Citizens here. Not Subjects. I don’t need the BATF to teach me how to read. Do any of you?
And all of the Shrouds I make for my own use do indeed have for Air-Gun Use only! It is only common sense to do so. 😉
Mike
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THE AUDIO SUCKS, BUT IT WAS THE ONLY WAY I NEW TO POST IT.
I gather from that conversation that EVEN THREADED shrouds are UNREGULATED by the ATF if used on AIR RIFLES. Threading one to the barrel of a FIREARM would be the ACT OF and is a whole other game.
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and brad, we all know you have tried to get the atf involved in the shroud game, it’s pointless unless you have an alter motive because you hold a class 2, could this be the reason?
I for one have read your warnings and will take them with a grain or two of salt.
I just don’t want to see anyone get into trouble.
To answer your question a bought the class 2 I don’t have an alternative motive.
I am currently working on some designs to see if I can get them passed by ATF, when I talked to AF they told me if I could get it passed by the ATF they would be interested in carrying moderators, and that means everyone on this forum that is currently producing them would have a chance of making some real money if AF likes there design, and if I can get it passed ill post the approved design on this forum for free, the main difference will be the way it mounts and material I won’t post the baffle design.
wayne, my beef has nothing what so ever with you trying to help out, it has to do with you calling something that it is not! but I keep saying that and you keep passing right by it saying your trying to help out a member, don’t you think it would of been much easer to just say you made a mistake and retract your false statement instead of trying to pass it off as other things mutable times? I know I would of.
and brad, we all know you have tried to get the atf involved in the shroud game, it’s pointless unless you have an alter motive because you hold a class 2, could this be the reason?
I for one have read your warnings and will take them with a grain or two of salt.
I have had several people ask me to make shrouds for other air guns that attach to the barrel, the answer is always “NO”. If it can attach to a barrel, it is to risky.
I don’t want to get into an argument over this issue, I now the law having dealt with the ATF with class 3 related projects for many years now.
Some people on the forum won’t take my warnings seriously, so if there wasn’t an issue with the moderators, don’t you think AF would be making them and selling them.
If some of you guys that are making moderators want, contact ATF and inquire a bought getting an approval letter to produce them for air rifles then all your bases are covered.
My original intent was to help out sniper, which was looking for a way to have justice served to dong and gave a couple of suggestions in his post.
I will leave it at that.
I realize not everyone would like to see those that have lost guns, money, parts, etc, helped out, so I too will let it go. (unless someone that needs help pm’s me, etc), no more public help, information or getting involved…, always seems to backfire, so, I am out of it.
I have my Talon repaired to new condition by Adam, sawtime donated a knob for the gun and selph donated a valve to get me shooting again, (THANKS GUYS!!!)
So, I have no more invested in this and have other things I could be doing than trying to help someone (sniper), only to have to sit and explain myself…, just not worth it. (sniper, if you need anything else, you can pm me)
Maybe someone is selling “dong parts” on the side or a secret pact has been made, I don’t know and not pointing fingers in any way…, just seems oddly strange that all of a sudden a guy that has ripped off thousands of dollars of money, guns and parts is now protecting the guy that has screwed a LOT of forum members. Not only here, but on other forums as well.
As it is, this is the last post on this subject for me (including anything to do with dong…, I am over it:)
A shroud for an Airforce Airgun (that attaches to the frame), is no more illegal than a baby bottle nipple, potato, plastic soda bottle, a 12″ piece of pvc pipe with an end cap and ect……… (these will all silence a firearm) It is only illegal if you modify it to attach to a firearm.
I have had several people ask me to make shrouds for other air guns that attach to the barrel, the answer is always “NO”. If it can attach to a barrel, it is to risky.
well wayne I really don’t know what your questions about the marauder’s shroud has to do with you calling something a class 3 when it not, but I guess you have some insight as to what he was really making so I did a bit of looking around for you and found out that it is removable (I don’t think it’s a screw on, but I really didn’t look that hard for the answer) and it has 4 baffles with and an end cap.
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Did any one notice that when using spell check, it tries to change BATF to BARF? 😯 😆
Now my BATF buddies, Don’t get your panties in a wad. Spell Check did it. Not me!!!LOL It’s all good! 😉
That damed Spell Check needs to be seriously investigated! 😯
Now that’s some funny shit right there, I don’t care who you are!!! 😛
And don’t be too hard on Brad, he is just trying to cover his ass! You guy’s have no idea how tough it can be to be in any kind of Gun Business these days. You have to love it. You Can make a living in a lot of other businesses without all the hassle and worrying if simply screw up on a bit of paper work you could end up in prison. My hat is off to him!
By the way. Using derilin has nothing to do with it one way or the other. (Brad said it would be best to use for AG’s as not to cause problems.
The law says decrease the report or noise by 1 db. They don’t give a hoot in hell whether it is made from plastic or platinum. 1 db my friend! A baby bottle nipple will do that. Hell, a weak primer will do that in a round!