Condor wins 100m shoot from regulated airguns!
Hi guys, yesterday I visited a national 100m airgun match and guess what?
Yes, the condor won! Amongs a lot of state of the art high tech airguns like Dayste, Beaumont, Air Arms, Theoben etc. the condor proved once and for always that it has potential!
One important thing to say, it is not a standard factory version but an improved version tuned by a dutch guy I know from the dutch airgun forum. And I can tell you he will probably will get very busy now …. He has also modified my condor and lots of others to get them shoot more consistent. So again, if you tune your airforce products the right way, you can even get the same results as from a regulated airgun.
Gr.
Gradje
See the results for yourself at:
You will see a table, translation of the collumns below
Ronde 1 Ronde 2 Totaal Wapen Kijker Pellet
round 1 round 2 Total Weapon Scope Pellet
All Replies
I’ve got 3 complete valves now so i’ll go and try Some different setups with this gun and just leave this valve as it is until I actually have something better
I’ll first try the talontunes valve again with the smaller valvestem and an lighter hammer I hope I’ll be able to get an decent shotcount from it this time guess need to try harder..
CONGRATULATIONS on your win . 😀 😀 it looked like a tough field.
I have never had any issues with the barrelmounting. Although i make my barrel bushings myself for a better fit inside the frame.
Although mounting the front bushing further forward would help a littlte with alignement!
Regards,
marc
For improving accuracy I think we also need to come up with a more solid way to mount the barrel inside the frame.
First, I think the front bushing should be mounted as far forward as possible. I think AF put it where it is in order to be able to mount any length barrel in the frame, from 12″ to 24″.
And, I think that the 4 grub screw system is not secure enough, especially for the longer, heavyer barrels.
I have not seen these issues discussed. Has anybody come up with a better barrel mount for the AF ?
Ah that clears it up. Then it’s just “usefull” info I posted
Thanks Robjan,
Regards,
Marc
Marc,
At this time shootsafe has an big valve stem (like the condor!!) so he needs a big hammer to open the valve .
If he wants an bigger shot count , he needs to change the whole gun.
smaller valve stem , strong retainer spring, lightweight hammer ,and he has to start all over again with string shooting and fiddling with the pretension on the hammer spring and so on .
BUT there’s a big risk;
At this time the gun shoots great!
what becomes off the gun AFTER such a change ???
Maby he can buy mine( gunpower stealth) 😉
Good luck!!
And shootsafe!!!! when you need a lighter hammer , just call !
its for free.
Greets robert
Shootsafe,
The thing is you won’t be able to make the valve small enough and strong enough and still get ample power to do that.
Self regulation in a valve is the way to go for shure as you point out, but give this a thought. Look at the valve as a toilet plunger. When you flush the toilet and open it just a little it is very difficult to keep open. But at a certain moment it gets easier. That’s because the pressure difference on and under the valve gets about the same as more water flows.
When you have a very small valve that happens very quickly and you lose the self regulating abillity! A valve needs air to close it quickly. The bigger the valve the more difficult it is to open initially and the faster it closes becouse of air flowing around it. The thing is you need to restrict valvetravel to accomplish this. As not to let the valve open to much! A combination between too much valve travel and to heavy a hammer is bad for self regulation. Sure you get the power but no up-platue-down curve in your velocity. Hence you lose shotcount. At 30 ftlbs you should get about 60 shots with about 45fps extreme spread(or sandwich spread 😆 ) At 55ftlbs you should still be able to get some 35 shots, with the same spread!
I hope this makes sence.
Regards,
Marc
😯 Wow, very cool of you two to come over and give us the details… Huge thanks.
This place rocks!!! ❗
Thank you Marc my idea was just the opposite, have less force of pressure closing the valve and more spring to compensate to flatten the curve somewhat. My train of thought was that as the pressure drops the valve opens more easily hence the power goes up until the pressure drops so much the power drops as well. If this effect where less should that not flatten the curve somewhat? The force of the spring is always the same hence more consistent?
My hammer weight is fairly large I have an standard talon hammer + condor weight.
My sheet shows an run with only the talon hammer pressure range was from 2100 to 1100 psi or something which is not a problem for me but there were less shots..
You are saying less hammer, less valvespring, more surface area essentially right? Exactly the opposite of what I thought 🙂
can you give me an URL for that thread so I can read up on that?
Now that I am here I was curious if someone here ever tried that modified breech + valvestem that was posted here once? It came from the Russian forum and was supposed to lessen the surface area of the tophat exposed to pressure to aid in closing the valve faster..
What hammerweight have you got in there?
You could try making the recess under the valvehead a little bit bigger. Start off with 0.1mm to 0.2. This increaces surface area for the high pressure air to work on and closes your valve faster.
Making the valvehead smaller lets you use a lighter hammer. I wouldn’t make it conical. You need the airflow to drag on the valvehead for fast closing. Maybe restrict your tophat travel a bit more. You could use hardened steel shims. They are available as think as 0.05mm I think.
With springs stronger is faster. So if you want the valve to close faster use a stronger spring.Although light coils are a tad fatster than heavy coils. There is a thread on the dutch forum from Robjan. Wimone gives a lot of usefull tips. Wimone has practically tried it all, and I have most of my knowledge from him.
Regards,
Marc
I am at max tension for spring close the retainer any further and the valve won’t fully open which probably is not good.
Perhaps springs from an other material can be found with an faster rebound?? Not much harder but perhaps a bit faster? Maybe lightening the breech and the hammer? I’ve seen rj’s fluted breech but not sure of the effect.
If one would change the shape of the plastic valvecheck and for instance make it conical would the resulting closing force applied by the pressure be any different/less? Perhaps then I could loose some hammerweight and reduce vibration and recoil. The curve would probably flatten some as well as pressure would have less effect..
Let me know..
Just my personal preference but those reg setups look uncomfortable and exceptional ugly!!
BTW his strings are pretty long and that means your standard deviations is going up.
If you, for instance remove every value from Robjan’s string below 290m/s, you got 34 shots left with a standard deviation of 8.3 seconds.
The DV means the general deviation from the mean throughout a population. The bigger the population the bigger your DV will be from a unregulated rifle.
Shure you can hang a big ole tank on the back of your gun with a regulator and that funny looking CO2 adapter. But the sport is flatening and stretching your curve in an unregulated setup. And I think Shootsafe done a good job at that!
Now for flattening your curve you could try screwing in your valvespring just a tad more but I think you already got the most from your curve at the moment, without loosing power that is!
Regards,
Marc
Hi Shootsafe,
Glad to see you post on here and congratulations for your win. I looked at your shotstring file and the minimum SD is 11 and is more typically in the 20s.
You are not using a regulator I’m guessing? That should flatten your curve more than anything else and should give you better shot counts too.
Mamcrackin’s got all the info on regulators and several people like Brutus, Talon4Me and Tony use them as well to get SD’s around 4. I myself am looking into 100m shooting so I’ll be following your progress closely!
Just cut off the other side 😉
And the crown ; just take off a mm or 2 and then recrowne.
with al lot of attention and sandpaper(?) in the lathe on normal speed (not high speed)
from 400 too waterproof 12000 (hobby shop) and that is not used with water but with oil.
and keep inspecting it whle you are sanding it .
Greets robert
Thanks Robert! 😀
Mike
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CONGRATULATIONS ShootSafe!