Remove the top hat: problems…
I’m trying to disassemble the TopHat. I removed the two small screws, but when i try to turn the TopHat to remove it, they turn all, the TopHat and the stem at the same time. The tank are empty.
Are there a trick to do it? 😳
Thank you very much
All Replies
I’d contact AF via fone and talk to some one before i undertook any dis-assembly; find out for sure what the correct steps to take are.
my Talon TH simply unscrews from the stem once the grub screws are loosened…a very simple, ez, fast, operation.
what caliber is your rifle? the size of the hole in the stem looks HUGE! use lotsa air?
“edward” on this forum said he has two valve stems with Top Hat so he can change quickly from a high power to a low power Top Hat setting. He says he has done in numerous times without a problem.
That means that the TH and valve stem can easily be removed with care not to bend the stem or gouge the metal. As I accidentally did and explained (above). I don’t know that the older style valve stem can be removed this way without damage and I wouldn’t try it on anything but the Condor Hi-flo valve that has a TH that can’t be removed by turning the TH upward on the threads.
I would still have a spare internal valve stem o-ring before attempting this.
Anybody that knows why this procedure would do any damage please let us know before someone damages his equipment or causes injury.
Thanks,
Edmund in Lima Ohio
AKA: Lurker #1
That’s exactly what I ment:)
I remember, I did remove the high flow valve before, and it’s started from the bottom.
There is a threads screw inside the valve, remove the screw, you should see a spring pop out, remove the spring, and then remove the stem the same way.
And you properly need 1 of this tool to open the valve.
Many thanks to all…
A photo of my damaged tophat (is new, buyed recently… 😳 )
I write to Airforce Airguns and they tell me that:
Thank you for your email with photos. The top hat on the hi-flo tank threads onto the valve pin from the bottom up. To remove it you will need to remove the brass insert. Once the brass insert is removed you will need to detach the black valve seat from the valve pin, then the top hat can be removed.
-It’s necessary to remove the valve from the tank to do it?
-How can i get out the brass insert? Is needed any special key?
Regards from Spain[/i]
I do not have the digram and I did TH and stem replacement myself.
My standard Talon valve’s TH unscrewed just fine in the regular way.
So I was pretty surprised when I tried to unscrew the TH from hi-flo valve and it didn’t. It just stopped. I thought maybe threads are messed up, so I tried forcing it and totally messed up the stem.
I ordered two stems and two TH from airforce and when they came I quickly realized what the deal was. All three stems and three TH have the same design and all three have to be scewed in from the end of the stem where the delrin plugs gets pressed in.
If it is still difficult to understand, just try to unscrew your tophat in the regular way and if it stops and won’t go any further that means that you have to take the valve apart ( assuming you have removed it from the bottle), unscrew the brass sit in which stem rides, than take the delrin valve plug out, take the stem out, and screw the TH onto the stem untill threads finish and your TH will just slide out along the stem and from it.
I have no idea if it is new design or it was always been like that but at least three of my stems and TH are like that – couldn’t be coincidence I guess.
Personally, I found two ways to but it back together ( I am sure there are other ways ).
I screwed the TH on the stem first, as there is no way around that in my case, than inserted the stem into the brass peice in which stem rides, after that I pressed the delrin plug in. Than I screwed the whole thing into the valve body using tool that I made just for it.
Another way is to screw the brass peice in first, insert the stem with TH on into the brass peice and than press the delrin plug onto the stem. I didn’t like this way cuz I was running the risk to bend the stem while pressing the delrin plug in.
That’s all I have to say about it ( with Forrest Gump accent) 😀
Sounds odd to me, but I do not have the hi-flo valve…
Pictures would be great but don’t take anything apart if it involves pulling the stem out of the valve… 😕 😯
I don’t know if all the hi-flo valves are the same but if the TH doesn’t screw off forward then the only way to do anything such as porting, polishing, replacing the o-ring etc. of this type of hi-flo valve will require it to be pulled out past the o-ring.
If I screw mine up again and/or have to remove it to replace the o-ring I will definitely take pictures.
Maybe tonaka got a diagram if he got a valve replacement. Or did AF do the job? They seem to be good about in warranty stuff with the possible exception of waiting time for a new replacement hand pump.
😯
Sounds odd to me, but I do not have the hi-flo valve…
Pictures would be great but don’t take anything apart if it involves pulling the stem out of the valve… 😕 😯
Critter,
No, my valve has only had the TH adjusted a bit by me. I did a slight polishing of the stem to make sure the end of the drill bit hadn’t burred the edges of the inner air holes. The stem is rounded on the end so that probably didn’t damage the o-ring and I took a close look at the o-ring without removing it and it didn’t appear marred. Although the stem is larger towards the inner air holes and has a 90 degree edge that could have done serious damage to the o-ring. If I get any noticeable air blast from the stem when shooting I’ll no doubt have to replace it. If anyone deliberately removes the stem they should plan ahead and automatically replace this o-ring. I might as well bother AF for a couple valve stem o-rings while they have me waiting a couple more weeks on a new replacement of a pump.
You probably messed up the o-ring (has your valve been modified?), but the valve is designed to have the stem removed without “going ballistic”…..
tonaka,
What is to keep the TH from being pulled out from the valve??
I had a problem with with a stuck #3 drill even with the grub screws loose.
I clamped the drill bit and rapped on the clamp and pulled the stem completely out of the valve. Believe me I had a scare wondering if the tank was about to go ballistic….. It didn’t, but after a little heating I removed the drill from the stem. From examining the valve I observed an intact small 0-ring inside that made reinsertion of the stem difficult. Again, being in unknown territory with a partially pressurized tank and not having the valve stem in place to relieve the pressure I figured that the stem came out and I’m going to get it back in. Expecting either the tank or the stem with TH to go ballistic I stood to the side and aimed the two in safe directions and rapped the stem with a piece of 2×4. No luck the first time but no damage either. My second attempt was a success! With a loud crack of air release the stem with TH were back in place. The 2×4 suffered a deep indentation of the TH but did it’s job as one of my frequently used tools. It’s a good substitute for the plastic tip machinist hammer I used many years ago. So far the valve stem is secure and has functioned properly.
To confirm what tonaka reported, the TH unscrewed to the rear of the valve stem and was easily removed. This newer TH is designed to not come off the front towards the barrel.
Like they say on Myth Busters, DO NOT DO THIS AT HOME!!! What I did could have been accomplished with a great deal more safety in a properly equipped machine shop. I was ill equipped, and scarred by what I did. I have no idea if I may have created a potential hazard as the valve stem o-ring could have been damaged. If it blows up in my face you will probably never hear about it.
Anyone with details of the proper method of installing the TH valve stem is encouraged to step forward before someone gets seriously hurt attempting to do what I did by accident.
Of course it is not.
The threads have regular length.
The TH has o-ring in it to keep the air from licking between the TH and the stem. So the threaded hole in the TH will be very close tolerence with the OD of the stem.
But, I guess because the walls of the stem are thin as they are the threads on it are slightly larger OD than the stem itself to prevent the stem from collapsing. SO the end of the TH that is facing the valve not the barrel, has o-ring and will not screw in from the top of the stem. Because of this reason you cannot screw in the hi-flo TH from the top. It has to be done from the bottom end, where the delrin seal pressed on.
I wish I took the pics but that is the best way I can expain it.
So the outer surface of the valve stem is threaded all the way to the seal?
That doesnt sound like any valve Ive ever seen.
What I found out recently, the hard way without asking anybody, that the tophat on hi-flo valve unscrews differently from the standard Talon valve.
On talon valve it just unscrews right off but as others said you need to keep tank under pressure with air so that stem doesn’t turn.
Hi-flo valve tophat will not unscrew from the top.
First I thought it just stuck and I forced it and totally messed up the stem. Had to order new stem and TP.
You have to either unscrew the valve or unscrew the front brass sit and take out the delrin sit/plug and only after stem come out you can unscew tophat by actually screwing it in and it will comeout from the bottom end.
So basically you cannot screw it on from the top or unscrew it the same way. You have to screw it on from the bottom and unscrew it from by screwing it in. Disassemble the valve.
At least my two new stems and TH are like that.
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Good information. I am going to place this in the “Quick Reference” Section.