Legality of Moderators
This may have already been covered in the forum. BUT I read an interesting article here: http://www.airgunhome.com/pages/silencers.html
I am interpreting this to mean we should only use materials in our moderators that cannot survive a firearm blast. i.e. it will disintegrate if we use gun powder.
To start a friendly debate and to get other pov I ask the question
For US Law: should a baffle system avoid an “all metal” construction?
The United States does not, contrary to popular belief, ”ban” silencers/suppressors. A person cannot purchase, construct or use one without a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms permit. Some states, however, do ban the sale and use of suppressors- even if a permit for one has been issued to an individual by the BATF (California is an example of this)- so check your local laws before assuming if you obtain a permit you’re ”legal.”
Also note: ANY device that could potentially be used to reduce the muzzle report of what is classified as a ”firearm” requires a BATF permit, where allowed. This means that just because you may construct your own suppressor and attach it to an airgun (not a firearm) you shouldn’t be comfortable in assuming you are in compliance with the law. If the BATF can construe that it may be removed (even if by cutting/slicing or otherwise damaging or destroying the airgun to which it is attached) and then used on a regular firearm- it would be illegal. Please note, the BATF has construed the reading of the regulations this way more than a few times.
A specifically relevant section of the U.S. National Firearms Act (NFA), 1968 that has been clarified by the BATF:
(M30) Are Paintball and/or Airgun Sound Suppressers NFA firearms?
The terms ”firearm silencer” and ”firearm muffler” mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.
Numerous paintball and airgun silencers tested by ATF’s Firearms Technology Branch have been determined to be, by nature of their design and function, firearm silencers. Because silencers are NFA classified weapons, an individual wishing to manufacture or transfer such a silencer must receive prior approval from ATF and pay the required tax.
If I have any further questions as to the classification of a paintball or airgun silencer, who should I contact?
Please send a written request to ATF’s Firearms Technology Branch.
All Replies
Mike
Mike, thank you for sharing.
Read the law in it’s entirety. It says WITHOUT MODIFICATION!!!!!!!!!! Other wise a straight lawn more muffler would be an illegal device. so would a hundred other things. Including the pillow you sleep on at night. Is your pillow illegal to posess? No. What if you tape it onto the muzzle. of your 30-06? Yep!
A little common sense here goes a long way. If it cannot be used on a fire arm without modification, it is not a silencer. Period!
This is why intent has so much sway with the law!
Day-yum!!!
Mike
Hahahahahaha………….I was wondering when you were going to find this thread and let loose..lol
god, How many times have I seen this same topic hammer out. I can’t count that high
Read the law in it’s entirety. It says WITHOUT MODIFICATION!!!!!!!!!! Other wise a straight lawn more muffler would be an illegal device. so would a hundred other things. Including the pillow you sleep on at night. Is your pillow illegal to posess? No. What if you tape it onto the muzzle. of your 30-06? Yep!
A little common sense here goes a long way. If it cannot be used on a fire arm without modification, it is not a silencer. Period!
This is why intent has so much sway with the law!
Day-yum!!!
Mike
as long as they can not readaly go on a powder bunner then who cares what is inside as long as they work as well as last.
Interesting.
Potato? Squash? Cucumber? Not man made?
Correct, so they’re not considered illegal, even though they can be placed in front of a gun. But something that is crafted, by a person, that can be put in front of a 22LR, to reduce its report by 1db for 1 shot, is considered as a silencer.
“A ‘man made’ device”
Potato? Squash? Cucumber? Not man made?
id say red locktie should hold that baby in there
😉
Think you’d have to take the bottle collar off, which is a hassle
Reading this brings up two questions…1. Can you change out a barrel from the rear? 2. If the answer to #1 is yes, how would go about “Welding” a LDC to the frame?
Right… But until you put duck tape on the soda bottle in a way that is suitable to connect to a portable firearm; its just a soda bottle. The illegal act is “manufacturing” or “constructing” a silencer without a valid license for the device. You don’t even have to use the device! it just has to be capable of being used.
So, my garage has plenty of items that can be considered a silencer. Until I assemble them to that purpose they are considered harmless. I can build a table, repair a leaking pipe, or build an expansion chamber for a 22LR.
Clearly there is discretion in law enforcement and a jury trial affords interpretation of the law by your peers. However… do you really want to explain to an overzealous cop or game warden what the hell you are doing with a detachable silencer? Hence my personal view that structural gun silencers (Talon SS, Marauder, etc) are safe because you cannot stick a 22LR in my Talon breach and silence the report BUT you can take an external Talon frame extender and put it in front of a 22LR and reduce the report.
I hate the way the law is worded. Its convoluted and unclear. Hence this thread.
Checkout this ATF clarification on paintball guns as it helps clear things up immensely.
http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2005-4.pdf
IDK gimm. You could duct tape a 2 liter soda bottle and some foam and reduce the report. I still say it boils down to what the jury comes back with for a verdict.
Ok,
So, just put a tiny bag of black powder inside the LDC in the first
‘chamber’ then if/when the BATF removes it from your Talon and
use it on a .22LR it will not diminish the report of the gun, it will
increase it!!! 😈 😈 😈
Nope.
My post here, forum responses, and ATF rulings have helped me understand the practicalities of the law. Its actually quite simple…. A ‘man made’ device to lower the sound of a firearm, for at least one shot of at least one db, is illegal.
That means manufactured airguns (or paintball) like the Talon SS are legal because you can’t stick a Talon SS on a 22LR and get a silencer. You have to remove the tube with a hacksaw to begin the illegal ‘manufacturing process’ of a silencer.
This led me to the uncomfortable realization that all 3rd party silencer / moderator / frame extenders are illegal because they can be fitted to a 22LR with some duct tape or similar mounting (no hack saw). Remember that the bullet doesn’t have to hit the target, you just need to reduce the firearm report by 1db for 1 shot to be considered on the wrong side of the US NFA and BATF.
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😉