Homemade Explosive and Frangible Ammo
See vids here. Anyone have comments and opinions on relative effectiveness and legality in USA.
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Riverside i must say one thing….THANK YOU……its times like this that i am glad to be wrong and now feel the need to do some home work on this matter and see what WA state has for local laws…
😈 😈 😈
Dues are never paid until you are in the dirt…
bottomline is to know the rules inside out and carry copies whenever you are engaged in anything some do gooder might transilate into a suspect activity.
as I have shown explosive projectiles are not even a Grey Area under Federal code so long as the HE charge is under the magic .25 ounce.
Under Bush his new ATFE did a number of inane things, one was they went after the High Power rocketry hobby hardcore, even changed the status of Ammonium Perchlorate into a HE. Hobbiests fought back and won in federal district court last year so its non regulated once again.
Of course a big bore AG firing effective HE cored explosive slugs would scare the bejesus out of the liberal bean counters, particularly if it was coupled with an non baffled silencer of the integrated ported barrel variety…
wouldnt want any baffel strikes ya know…LOL
It seems you have paid your dues Riverside. The feds are the worst I think, or perhaps State and locals working with Federal power ie., a grant that gives them both money and federal power to enforce laws that they could not under state statute.
Roachcreek
yes a very good phrase to remember…
back when I used to do Gun Shows nation wide I was stopped a number of times by Doughnut Munchers who either saw $$$ signs or were in justan outright panic over a 1/2 Ton pickup load of small arms. Always started the same…handcuffs, calling in multiple back up units and stating they were going to seize all of my lawfully secured & transported inventory. About that time I would inform them they were in violation of Federal code, to wit MV86 and demand that they get a supervisor on scene NOW!
Always ended the same way too
once the seasoned LEO showed up and he told them to get the damn cuffs off me I would show him my bound book, FFL and give him a copy of MV86 which clearly states you are allowed to transport firearms through any State in the USA so long as they are legal in your home & destination State and in every case I was sent on my merry way…even made a few sales to a few of the same LEOs who had done the stop later.
Its all about knowing the rules, having copies of the rules with you and acting sane & respectful even when some 19 year old BoyPig is feeding you his own juvenile interpetation of Code
Many years back in College I used to carry a side by side 10 gauge percussion shotgun with 10″ barrels as my car gun. I could have it loaded and uncased in the car as long as there were no caps on the nipples. Spent the night in Jail several times over that one, assholes would never listen and ended up kissing my ass a day or two later when the local DA and ATF told them there was not one violation…I mean it really got to them and what was worse was they had to give me my piece back…LOL
anyways after several times of the same County dildos running me in I went to the DA and stated I had grounds now for a multi million dollar harrassment suit against his County
after that I was on a respectful 1st name basis with every officer in a 3 county area
Cant blame LEOs…they have actually very little training on these matters. Their job is if they think the law has been violated to run you in then let the DA sort it out. Our job as citizens is to respectfully educate our Officers and while not everyone is willing to spend a night in jail to do it if it saves others down the road I used to jump at the chance
dont think I am anti police either…most of my family was/is federal or local LE which has given me a different perspective on the problem
yes knowledge can have great power
you just best know how to properly apply it for best effect
Thanks for clearing that up for us, after 30 years of sleepless nights worring who heard that blast, I can finalally sleep!
Seriously tho Riverside, information is power, thanks again.
Roachcreek
one more quick point I thought should be thrown in the discussion is that the .25 oz is only about High Explosive fillers which includes the obvious compounds as well as flash powder, Nitro cotton, Nitro Paper/flash paper and flash powder but what is specifically EXCLUDED from the HE definition are “propellents”!
so whats a propellent? any smokeless powder
this is why you can have 100s of pounds of powder for reloading without even a federal magazine requirement but have to go thru all sorts of silly crap for Black powder.
reason this happened had nothing to do with BP being a better explosive but instead was fallout back in the 70s from the Fedz attempting to go fter “outlaw” biker gangs who due to felony convictions were getting wise and arming up with cap & ball revolvers. Rather than rewrite the GCA DOJ had ATF redefine Black as HE which meant felons could not legally possess it.
never heard of DOJ ramping a felon over a can of BP but thats the background…LOL
State law is up to the resident of that State to discover
my point was as far as ATFE is concerned its a non issue and as the question was AG in nature it really fades into obscurity as far as the Bureau is concerned just like AG silencers.
The big problem is straight LE ignorance…ask a Cop if you can have explosive ammo 99% of the time he will say NO WAY!
of course the same ignorant Doughnut muncher will likely tell you the same thing about your Talon Tunes shroud if you call it an EVUL dreaded “silencer”
as far as why we dont see more ammo/pellets being offered
easy
one word…LIABILITY
sorry u posted as i was typing
if gun stores can sell those type in a bullet then why cant we make them in a pellet
1st lets cover Destructive Devices:
The definition of a “destructive device” is found in 26 U.S.C. § 5845(f). The definition reads as follows:
(1) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas, (A) bomb, (B) grenade, (C) rocket having a propellant charge of more than 4 ounces, (D) missile having an explosive charge of more than 1/4 ounce, (E) mine or (F) similar device.
again with explosive ammo its quantity of explosive in the projectile and a 1/4 ounce of PETN or similar HE is, well pretty devastating. So if its under .25 oz of HE its not subject to the NFA.
thats actually all the Federal regulation there is on explosive ammo. Back in the 80s DOJ used some idiotic subterfuge to go after Bingham Ltd after Reagan and lardass Brady were shot with their Devestaor Brand explosive .22 ammo but federally the NFA was never actually enhanced to outright prohibit manufacture/sale of explosive rounds. For example the early military 407 series of 40mm practice rounds for the M79 & 203 carry a PETN pellet to burst the chalk ball…legal to possess. Better example are the Raufoss .50BMG rounds used in the Barretts for anti material use. Explosive and dead legal to buy, sell & possess.
As I said there is a great deal of just dead wrong information out there on this topic.
Good knowledge, have to add that states add their own stuff as well… YMMV. 😉
nope, has zero to do with it at the federal level with non licensees who are making crap for personal use. You like so many are lost in the morass of regulatory law on this shit…
1st lets cover Destructive Devices:
The definition of a “destructive device” is found in 26 U.S.C. § 5845(f). The definition reads as follows:
(1) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas, (A) bomb, (B) grenade, (C) rocket having a propellant charge of more than 4 ounces, (D) missile having an explosive charge of more than 1/4 ounce, (E) mine or (F) similar device.
again with explosive ammo its quantity of explosive in the projectile and a 1/4 ounce of PETN or similar HE is, well pretty devastating. So if its under .25 oz of HE its not subject to the NFA.
thats actually all the Federal regulation there is on explosive ammo. Back in the 80s DOJ used some idiotic subterfuge to go after Bingham Ltd after Reagan and lardass Brady were shot with their Devestaor Brand explosive .22 ammo but federally the NFA was never actually enhanced to outright prohibit manufacture/sale of explosive rounds. For example the early military 407 series of 40mm practice rounds for the M79 & 203 carry a PETN pellet to burst the chalk ball…legal to possess. Better example are the Raufoss .50BMG rounds used in the Barretts for anti material use. Explosive and dead legal to buy, sell & possess.
As I said there is a great deal of just dead wrong information out there on this topic.
Riverside I think the key to binary targets being legal is that they are just targets….now take part a and part b mix them together and put it into a hollow point and you now have somthing completely different….legal or not that’s not something I really wanna call and ask about or even find out the hard way….
Sheesh…here we go again
First off Homemade explosives are not in and of themselves illegal at the Federal level
theres alot of things that come into play
quantities
how long before you use it
those are to two big ones
good example are binary explosive charges such as Kenesticks or Skylight Explosives binary exploding targets. Unmixed these are unregulated, you can buy them over the phone with a credit card and have them delivered to your door step. Mix the components and they are a regulated item
Skylights Exploding target are incredibly powerful, like a half stick of dynamite…100 yards away you will feel the thump on your chest. They are used at full auto shoots all the time.
lots of real bad info out there on pyro when it comes to the law
I am grateful for the feedback on this thread. While I like the idea of experimenting I don’t like the idea of visiting a prison cell 🙂
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well WA State is a bit Nazi…
for example one MG part can be potentialy prosecuted as a live machinegun!
its far left coast in this regard
worse tha Kali, Il or NY…each States I refuse to spend a cent in so you can get a bit of an idea how I regard WA State