4500psi and microbore vs nonmicrobore hose ??
I’m a talon virgin. Just got a TT talon and having fun. but…
I’m looking into buying a carbon fiber scba 4500psi tank and associated refill clamp, hoses, etc. after recently discovering that my scuba tank is a 3000psi bomb waiting to go off (it’s made with vintage 1986, 6351-T6 alloy.)
I’ve got a few thoughts regarding 4500psi. Anyone good with math?
Is there significantly more air loss with a normal hose vs a microbore hose to justify the $20-$30 price difference? Or my real question should be what is the air loss in other hoses with respect to the microbore 0.07″ hose? Is it significant with respect to real world total # of fills?
According to airhogs refill calculator, there’s 21 fills from a 44/4500 tank filling 490cc from 2000 to 2700…I figure that is with zero loss. So what is the loss due to “filling/bleeding the hose?” (not to mention filling/bleeding the cga347 fitting, tee, gauge, adapters, etc and then the hose too.)
Speaking in terms of # of fills, my opinion is that the ‘gain or loss’ is greater simply from the little variance in starting or ending fill pressure, especially in eyeballing say 2700psi on the pressure gauge. (Filling to 2750 from 2000 gives 19 fills, 2800psi gives 18fills.)
I don’t know how much air it takes to fill a hose from zero to 2700psi. I wonder if my intuition is way off or not. The math will help.
Sorry if this is ruining anyone’s buzz.
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Sorry… 😈 😆
Quality move, your going to do well here… 😉 😆
Welcome to the nuthouse Mash!!!
Jerry, you mean you don’t have the hose passing through the floor boards so you can be hooked in to your filling array while at your shooting bench? 😆
You bastard! I never thought of that and now I have to work on it! If you ever have another idea I will have you tracked down! 😆
Actually, if I had a hose going downstairs to the 5 foot tall air tank it would be an even more stable source of air for precision shooting… damn you!
Quality move, your going to do well here… 😉 😆
Welcome to the nuthouse Mash!!!
Jerry, you mean you don’t have the hose passing through the floor boards so you can be hooked in to your filling array while at your shooting bench? 😆
A couple thoughts here and then you can go back to your number crunching…
The microbore hose wastes a lot less air than any alternative. A 5′ hose (which you don’t need for a Talon but comes in handy for benching other guns) will hold and waste less air than a 1″ regular hose, right? It’s also easier to coil and just plain deal with than a stiffer regular hose.
I’ve got a compressor in the basement so I don’t have to sweat every mole of wasted gas but all the same, the thin hose works better for every purpose I’ve found. I also tend to fill a couple tanks and then go shooting where I will drain both tanks in a day. I don’t want to waste air when i can’t run downstairs and fill the tank! It doesn’t matter if you have a compessor at home or a free fill from the fire station next door when you are out at the range and run out!
Yes, a short hose will do OK for a Talon/Condor fill but like many of us, you’ll grow into several guns (or already have) and the small bore hose will pay off.
Now, for ya’ll that are so worried about the “cost per year” and THINK you need a brand new 15 year carbon fiber tank….consider this..Are you SO SURE you’re gonna be doing HPA airguns for the next 15 years? Are you? The ONLY advantage of Carbon fiber over fiberglass is that it weighs a little less…Firenae have used fiberglas tanks for years and years and years…
If you want to lug around a 40 lb. cylinder, by all means get yourself a SCUBA tank..I peronally can carry my 14 lb.SCBA with a shoulder strap ANYWHERE I go..but not the scuba
Again…I bought a 66cu.ft. fiberglass tank, It had brand new hydro test just done..It fills to 4,500 psi..It came with 3 ft, micro-bore, stainless steel hose and liquid-filled gauge set-up..It cost $350.00 for the COMPLETE set-up delivered from California to my front door here in Georgia…It has FIVE years life left, and in 3 years will be due a hydro test. ..Spending a lot of time worrying over how much it costs per year, or what will it be worth if I decide to sell, etc,etc,etc. are just a waste of time FOR ME !! It cost me $0.19 a DAY to own this set-up..is it worth ANY effort to see if you can get one for say $0.10 a day?? ❓ ❓ ❓ ❓
Pak, You got a pic of that yoke set up? Whad did you use to get a quick conect to fit it?
Consider a 3500psi steel tank is comparatively cheap and holds 100cuft of air at a pressure that most dive shops won’t blink at. Plus steel is rated for 40 years; making a hydro tested and inspected second hand tank attractive.
Actually, you can set it up so that AF bottle adapter with male QD fitting can plug straight into a female QD on the yoke that fits to the bottle..Had mine that way for a while, but then I built a couple more HPA guns . With the hose setup I don’t even have to remove the bottles, except for on my TalonSS. I didn’t the hose was worth it at first, but Joe Brancoto sole the 66 cu ft 4500psi tank WITH the hose and gauge setup so cheap, I couldn’t refuse the offer…I LIKE the 3 ft. hose ….should have gotten it from the very beginning 😆 😆
Now, for ya’ll that are so worried about the “cost per year” and THINK you need a brand new 15 year carbon fiber tank….consider this..Are you SO SURE you’re gonna be doing HPA airguns for the next 15 years? Are you? The ONLY advantage of Carbon fiber over fiberglass is that it weighs a little less…Firenae have used fiberglas tanks for years and years and years…
If you want to lug around a 40 lb. cylinder, by all means get yourself a SCUBA tank..I peronally can carry my 14 lb.SCBA with a shoulder strap ANYWHERE I go..but not the scuba
Again…I bought a 66cu.ft. fiberglass tank, It had brand new hydro test just done..It fills to 4,500 psi..It came with 3 ft, micro-bore, stainless steel hose and liquid-filled gauge set-up..It cost $350.00 for the COMPLETE set-up delivered from California to my front door here in Georgia…It has FIVE years life left, and in 3 years will be due a hydro test. ..Spending a lot of time worrying over how much it costs per year, or what will it be worth if I decide to sell, etc,etc,etc. are just a waste of time FOR ME !! It cost me $0.19 a DAY to own this set-up..is it worth ANY effort to see if you can get one for say $0.10 a day?? ❓ ❓ ❓ ❓
5 ft of microbore is pretty self-defeating isn’t it? Why does it need to be that long?
If you really want to save air, set it up so the AF bottle screws direct to the tank(via the reg and bleed of course 😯 😆 )
pm to bone, I pass on that 5 footer. That is a very good price. Saw is more deserving than me. I need to settle on a tank first. No cart before the horse.
Thanks savage for the tip on the 106. Microbore or not, with a 106 it really doesn’t matter much. I do scuba, and hadn’t thought about any tanks that size. I’d been concentrating on scba cylinders. A preliminary check on prices puts a 4350/106 luxfer at $450, shipped new. Economy of scale is very good in comparison to 3-5yr old 44 or 88/4500 scba. Lots of scuba and paintball shops in the area fill 4500, too. 😀
I’ll have to do some more shopping… my 3000psi bomb (now a wind chime) is also made by luxfer, so I am wary of being a guinea pig with a luxfer test cylinder design.
mamcrackin and benneeb0y, good point–microbore will be easier to handle.
Will do Saw.
Bone
If he doesn’t want it let me know
SAW
Yeah, you’ll save some air with the micro bore for sure. Especially vs a hose with 1/8″ I.D. I have a brand new never used micro bore 5 footer that I bought from Joe Bracotto or whatever his name is. It’s got 1/4″ male pipe thread on one end and a stainless female foster Quick disconnect on the the other end. I paid around $70 for it but I have never used it. You can have it for $45 if you’re interested. Just shoot me a pm.
Go to this site…it will answer your questions about tanks, gauges, hoses, the whole HPA thing..I bought one from him 66 cu ft 4500psi with gauge and hose set-up now I ALWAYS have air 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀
I have one too and would say yes. I don’t have proof but have seen the fatter ones and I would guestimate that you loose less with the micro. It is easy to coil.
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