ordered 2 big bores today
So i called jack haley today and ordered a .457 and his new .58 cal big bores i ordered them both built to the gills 457 produces over 500 fpe and the .58 is gonna produce over 800 fpe they will arrive in late october first part of november
All Replies
on a slightly different note, i like 3 plus inches of eye relief on ANY scope. for me it is more comfortable (and safer when the .338 win mag, .458 Lott, .375 H&H, AND 300 Weatherby come out of the safe.) the fast stepping Weatherby calibers are far and away the worse recoilers because of the very fast burning powders. the .375 H&H is much like i suspect a big bore air rifle would be- a hard shove instead of a painful WHACK. and the ONLY time i shoot the heavy hitters off the bench is the initial( and painful) scope sighting!!! after that, it is all offhand, kneeling and preferably off shooting sticks. by the way, if you have never tried tripod shooting sticks, you are missing out on a superb way to improve field accuracy. bipods seem to me a waste of time for hunting unless theY are really long but a light weight pair of take-down or collapsible tripod shooting sticks will improve your accuracy TREMENDOUSLY.
you think your air rifle kicks ? watch this video. the round is the .577 T REX, developed by the the same arab guy that owns http://www.accuratereloading.com website. video was taken in his underground shooting range beneath his palace in Dubai. OVER 8000 FPE AT THE MUZZLE.
not saying it won’t have a kick to it
I am saying recoil on big bore AGs is subjective
I do agree the choice of optics may be a valid concern on an 800 FPE Air Gun as this simply is not like a recoiless .177, .22 or even .25
seen folks blacken an eye with poorly mounted optics on even a .30-30 so its a valid point
however
the notion that recoil in firearms of similar calibers is not relevant to airguns is a thing I will take some issue with as while the propelling forces are totally different mass remains the same
the notion of the jet of air is valid but it is Not the violent release of combustion. This is the difference…firearms can Kick, Airguns tend to shove
its the same difference between a low order explosive such as Ammonium Nitrate and say RDX or PETN
AN shoves, RDX or PETN due to their much faster detonation velocities shatter
I still shake my head reading posts about how someones Sam Yang or Dragon kicks soooo bad
spare me
they dont and neither does a 400 FPE AG
double the FPE mostly by increase of projectile mass you get a decent shove but nothing I equate with brutal recoil
look at it this way
a .45 muzzle loader has a kick to be certain, a Haley Jack Hammer really doesn’t {and yes I have shot one}
a .58 muzzle loader has some kick too so would the Haley .58s recoil pulse exceed that of the powder burner given the same mass being moved?
not calling you a liar by any means, perhaps your individual perception of recoil differs from my own
carried a 4″ S&W M29 .44 magnum for years, some of my friends bitched in a major way about its recoil…didn’t bother me in the least
as I stated at the onset recoil isa very subjective thing
what is brutal to some folks is inconsequential to others 😉
btw, Barnes built a couple full dump guns during his little war with Dennis, one shot specials
What happened to the “Jeez not this shit again” picture?
Riverside,
I think you’ve fallen into the trap of hypothetical comparisons when actual user reports are available. I have a 450 FPE .62 and the kick is not particularly big or unpleasant, it’s probably very much like your 400+ fpe gun. I also have shot my new 700+ fpe .58 and the kick is substantial. It put a scope of average eye relief into my head and I’m fairly decent with technique.
I think you’ll see that I pointed out the big bore recoil in this range is not like a PB’s recoil. I think Walt has it right that the recoil is due largely to the jet of air in addition to the big slug.
I’m not sure why you choose to call “bullshit” on this as I don’t believe I’ve set myself out as a liar.
If you can’t believe me or think I’ve overdramatized the recoil, go shoot an 800 fpe .58 and and tell us if you’d be comfortable with a short eye relief scope. It’s not the same as your gun and your experience with PBs is not relevent. You are speculating and I am comparing actual experience.
I’m advising RJ that he ought to get a scope with generous eye relief. I’m sure average eye relief will be fine if his technique is perfect every time.
I’m not sure what “one of Barnes’ full dump specials” refers to either. I’m aware of most of his work and can’t recall a full dump special or anything he might have made in the near past that has a dump valve or effectively dumps the full charge. And I was referring to Jacks new .58 as well, if it’s built to make 800fpe, it will have significant recoil.
Walt you asked for it when to contrasted the .22 Hornet to the .30 M1 Carbine round
I know you are simply too wise to be that ignorant of the differences so I took it as what it was intended to be
one of your dry humored cracks
Drop .30 carbine barrel and a Honet barrel on a TC Contender frame, shoot them then come back with this garbage about how they are the same…the carbine round is easily in the magnum range of pistol cartridges.
in a rifle the Carbine still has some recoil, not much but the Hornet has practically nothing even in a pistol
But I suspect you already knew that didn’t you…
dont act all innocent, you knew what you were doing
if you make a such a dumbassed comparison I reserve the right to call you a dumbass 😉
back to the matter at hand
who hereactually thinks a .58 Air Gun will kick worse than a .58 black powder rifle?
same damn projectiles and the Black powder rifle is sending them down range quite a bit faster
thing is .58 civil war rifles don’t have much of a kick…nothing severe by any means, not really even as bad as your typical shotgun and the Haley .58 will likely weigh more than a 63 Springfield, a Zouave or a .577 Enfield
sorry, I just have to call bullshit
remember I am talking about Jacks new .58…not one of Barnes’ full dump specials either
Don’t make me do more Chuck jokes….. 🙄 😆
Very true 80 GRIT, however, I suggets you remove those remarks because he looks a lot like Chuck Norris 😀
Dave
I can’t find the energy output but I can see that it definatley has much more than a 12 GA
Dave
Just wanted to point out that the guy in that video weighs 120 pounds soaking wet. And he is off balance in his stance as well.
air guns simply Do Not have the same recoil impulse as fire arms
the .58 should be less than a .50 70 black powder load which really is rather mild
owned .410s that were more brutal than .50-70s
you guys saying an airgun kicks worse than a powder burner?
sorry the hornet has no impulse yea old dumbass…even my 400 foot pound Haley is real real mild for recoil…
why do people continue to contrast recoil?
most of the reason is they have little to zero experience with arms that DO recoil
just like the jackasses that claim the lowly .223 “kicks”
spare me
then again I guess I grew up shooting major center fires
not buying based on my own experience and most of that is 19th century stalking rifles
not Asian crap
lot of myth on this one
is there an impulse?
for sure certain
is it objectionable to those used to powerful fire arm?
no
in most arguments the one that resorts to name calling and or swearing is the one without the intelligence to support his position.
That whats up with you?
Didn’t say no recoil
just saying the impulse isn’t the sharp smack of a belted magnum or for that matter the brutal kick of a single shot 12 gauge with a steel butt plate
recoil stroke on these things is entirely different
Managed to find it, It fires a 1005 gr slug at 715 fps for 1141 FPE
Dave
No recoil eh?
I can’t find the energy output but I can see that it definatley has much more than a 12 GA
Dave
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
hey guys who cares about the recoil i damn sure dont im happy i got them on order i dont worry about the recoil im 6’2 and go a little better than 280lb ive talked to the owners wife which has a .58 and she told me what its like she says it kicks and pushes she said if i plant my right foot back left forward lean into the left foot and shoot it will push me back to the upright position so that being said i still ordered the gun and im gonna get it and go kill something if u want to see how a .58 kicks go to youtube and check out mr hollow point and his Beowulf shooting his 866grn pellets he says its like shooting a 12ga