Q:

.22 cal 21.1 gr Kodiaks VS 21.14 gr H&N Baracudas

Switching over to Baracudas from Kodiaks. My groups at 50 yards appear equal but as the psi was dropping the fps made a noticeable 20 fps difference.

Condor Top Hat 0.085″, Power Wheel = 2 Full Turns
Approximate
…….PSI……………FPS……………..Deviation…..
…..2404………….1014.07…………….1
…..2382………….1024.11……………11
…..2361………….1014.92…………….2
…..2339………….1016.96…………….4
…..2317………….1024.54……………11
…..2295………….1013.64…………….0
…..2274………….1011.44……………(2)
…..2252………….1011.53……………(2)
…..2230………….1008.07……………(5)
…..2208………….1009.75……………(3)
…..2187………….1006.14……………(7)
…..2165………….1002.56…………..(11)

…..2143……………982.86…………….8
…..2121……………988.08……………13
…..2099……………987.51……………12
…..2078……………982.22…………….7
…..2056……………979.28…………….4
…..2034……………847.98………….(127)
…..2012……………972.52……………(3)
…..1991……………971.27……………(4)
…..1969……………960.63…………..(15)
…..1947……………953.67…………..(22)

Conclusion:
The little weight difference = about 20 fps.
The last of the Kodiaks = 47 fpe
The first of the Baracudas = 45 fpe
I don’t know if the Baracuda would out perform the Kodiaks if the firing order was reversed. I’ll have to revisit this when I get another tin of Kodiaks.

Has anyone else shot a similar or reversed order string with the Kodiaks VS the Baracudas? I’d like to see the data at the point of change.

General Chat

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Viewing 15 replies - 16 through 30 (of 36 total)

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quote Jerry:

I think you’re on to something. No way your going to convince anyone until you do the same comparison with about a dozen tins of each though… 😀

Jerry, If i can convince anyone of any one thing it would be that there are differences not only between labels, individual tins and even pellets within each tin. If you are having enough fun hitting your target with most of your shots then you don’t need to spend a lot of time selecting types of ammo, different fill pressures, different rifle settings etc. But if you want to know that you will make a kill in one shot you need to consider the individual characteristics and condition of each pellet.

I’ve had a lot of fun jumping around changing one thing and then another while developing a knowledge of the total picture. When I get down to it later this year, I will be sorting my pellets by weight in hundredths of a grain.
It has become obvious from the measurements and comparisons in this topic that pellet consistency is not to be taken for granted.

So, here are the Standard Deviations for the 10 pellet groups of 100 Baracudas and 100 Kodiaks:

Baracudas…………………………………..Kodiaks
10 pellet………….Standard…………….10 pellet………..Standard
Weight……………Deviation…………….Weight………….Deviation
13.9g………………..0.04…………………..13.7g…………….(0.13)
13.8g……………….(0.06)………………….13.9g……………..0.07
13.9g………………..0.04…………………..13.8g…………….(0.03)
13.8g……………….(0.06)………………….13.9g……………..0.07
13.9g………………..0.04……………………13.9g……………..0.07
13.8g……………….(0.06)………………….13.9g………………0.07
13.9g………………..0.04……………………13.7g…………….(0.13)
13.8g……………….(0.06)………………….13.9g………………0.07
13.9g………………..0.04……………………13.8g…………….(0.03)
13.9g………………..0.04……………………13.8g…………….(0.03)

Baracudas Standard Deviation = 0.0516398 gram OR 0.80 grain
Kodiaks Standard Deviation = 0.0823273 gram OR 1.27 grain

I think that pellet for pellet may show less difference but these are the facts and figures as derived from two groups of 100 pellets.

If were going to split hairs

0.046297 = 0.05

So if H&N are 0.046297 heavier than the 21.1gr Kodiaks then they are 21.15 and not 21.14…..

Just sayin 😀

P.S – Are you using H&N Barracuda Match? If so.. are you also using Kodiak Match?

I think you’re on to something. No way your going to convince anyone until you do the same comparison with about a dozen tins of each though… 😀

Ah, I Knew it! The more I dig in the ‘ol cess pool the deeper I sink into the sh-t.
And, the definition of “the same difference” gets broader and broader.

Wait til you see the Standard Deviation stats!

What’s a KLOD?

Also, chairgun says Kods have a BC of .0350 and Baras have .0420 😆

This of course is accurate due to the fact the Baras have pixie dust sprinkled on them 😉

OK, here it is, Baracudas VS Kodiaks tin for tin.
WEIGHT IN GRAMS
COUNT…..CUDAS……KLODS…….KLODS
10………….13.9……….13.8………..13.8
20………….27.7……….27.6………..27.6
30………….41.6……….41.4………..41.5
40………….55.4……….55.3………..55.3
50………….69.3……….69.2………..69.1
60………….83.1……….83.1………..82.9
70………….97.0……….96.8………..96.7
80………..110.8………110.7……….110.6
90………..124.7………124.5……….124.4
100………138.6………138.3……….138.3

I ran the 2nd half to the Klods tin for verification but had to add one from the first group of Klods because the tin only contained 199 pellets. The tin of Klods says approximately 200 so that’s close.

Then I thought to weigh another 100 of the Cudas but I had already counted the first 100 back into the tin. So I tried to get the ones off the bottom and counted out 100 and weighted them and got 138.5. That’s close but good enough for a gram scale. While I was at it, I counted out the other 100 Cudas and found 2 extras in the tin.

Late addition:
BARACUDAs
138.6 grams = 2,138.9249 grains
2,138.9249 gr Divided by 100 Count = 21.389249 grains average
KODIAKs
138.3 grams = 2,134.2952 grains
2,134.2952 gr Divided by 100 Count = 21.342952 grains average
DIFFERENCE of Average Weight = 0.046297 gr

Conclusions:
Cudas weigh more than Klods.(period)
Klods are about 1/4 grain heaver on the average than advertised.
Not only do the puny Klods weigh slightly less but they can’t count and only gave me 199 instead of 200.
Not only did the Cudas weigh more than Klods, they gave me 2 extra!
SO, admittedly the weight difference is negligible but in comparing one on one this time the Baracudas prove to be a better value!

In the next episode I intend to enter the 10 Count weight differences of the Baracudas and the Kodiaks into my spreed sheet to determine the Standard Deviation of groups of 10.

Again, any bets of which has the best Standard Deviation?
Is it a fair comparison since the Baracudas weigh more than the punny Kodiaks?

Well, it’s tomorrow already……..Y.N. makes a very good point. Pab may be on to something too. We know that every pellet can’t weigh EXACTLY the same. Maybe they do sort them and all the “lite” ones become Kods. Makes for interesting conversation anyhow.

I know.. I really shouldnt use Tom Gaylord as a source….. BUT seems it agree’s with me I’ll use it –

quote :

Beeman Kodiak/H&N Barracuda (same pellet)

P.S –

21.1 and 21.14 markings do not mean there is .04gr between them…. 21.10 and 21.14 would. The 21.1 is just accurate to the nearest tenth of a degree as opposd to the 21.14 or 21.10 being accurate to the nearest hundredth.

quote LURKER #1:

I’m still a bit confused. Are the Kodiaks actually a bit lighter than the Baracudas? Kodiaks are rated at 21.1 gr and Baracudas at 21.14 gr.
My jewelry scale doesn’t do grains and the accuracy isn’t enough to determine .1 grain but I have used it to measure quantities of pellets then divide by the number and convert to grains from grams.

Savagesam suggested weighing 10, 20, and 100 of each to see what we come up with. Well, I found one last tin of the Kodiaks in my arsenal (re-enforced cardboard box) and will weigh both the Kodiaks and the Baracudas sometime tomorrow.

ANY BETS ON WHICH ARE HEAVIER? OR BY HOW MUCH HEAVIER?

Of course I’ll bet the Baracudas are heavier by about .04 grains and thus I will have BUSTED the MYTH that Kodiaks and Baracudas are identical. If there is as advertised a weight difference, they are not identical.

If I’m right, then the Kodiaks and Baracudas may be from the same manufacturer and same machines but are sorted to give Beeman the selected punnies that couldn’t make it as Baracuda 21.14 pellets.

Funnily enough, I suggested this a while back, that us Euro boys get the good ones, and Beeman get the floor sweepings… 😆

I’m still a bit confused. Are the Kodiaks actually a bit lighter than the Baracudas? Kodiaks are rated at 21.1 gr and Baracudas at 21.14 gr.
My jewelry scale doesn’t do grains and the accuracy isn’t enough to determine .1 grain but I have used it to measure quantities of pellets then divide by the number and convert to grains from grams.

Savagesam suggested weighing 10, 20, and 100 of each to see what we come up with. Well, I found one last tin of the Kodiaks in my arsenal (re-enforced cardboard box) and will weigh both the Kodiaks and the Baracudas sometime tomorrow.

ANY BETS ON WHICH ARE HEAVIER? OR BY HOW MUCH HEAVIER?

Of course I’ll bet the Baracudas are heavier by about .04 grains and thus I will have BUSTED the MYTH that Kodiaks and Baracudas are identical. If there is as advertised a weight difference, they are not identical.

If I’m right, then the Kodiaks and Baracudas may be from the same manufacturer and same machines but are sorted to give Beeman the selected punnies that couldn’t make it as Baracuda 21.14 pellets.

quote knifemaker:

The only reason that there would be any difference is being from different lots. They are the same pellet. Regardless of which tin they came in.

You will find the same differences in either branding from different manufacturing dates.

Mike

I think you hit the nail right in the head my friend.

I have also notice diferent performance between kodiaks & barracudas, in my experience, most of the time i use the barracudas, and once i swiched to kodiaks (couldnt get barracudas that time), and my groups opened up a little.
But i agree with you, that tin of kodiaks i got must have been a diferent lot.

I’m with Y.N., heck 20 Fps could be any combination of things. When I bought my Beeman imported RX-1 in 1992 (From Dr. Robert Beemans headquaters in Santa Rosa at the time, man talk about a kid in a candy store he had every gun he imported into the U.S. there before me on the shelves) I thought they were made by Beeman. Somebody weigh a handful of each.

Difference for the 21.1 and 21.14 weight on the box might be that they don’t figure there is much need for two decimal point accuracy on this side of the pond… ?

I’d like to see 2 shot strings from the same start pressure but I think 20fps doesnt amount to much and could be batch or even be some kind of post processing (lubed/unlubed etc).

The only reason that there would be any difference is being from different lots. They are the same pellet. Regardless of which tin they came in.

You will find the same differences in either branding from different manufacturing dates.

Mike

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