25 cal shifting inpact?
I have had this gun about 2 months now, at first out of box it sucked bad it would not stay on a paper plate at 50 yards. I am using jsb exacts and h&n barracuda’s. Well I found the barrel bushing was not even securred to the barrel, i fixed that and it it shot good and still does. My problem is everytime i go out to shoot it has a diffrent point of impact than the last time I shot it, so needless to say I have to site it in everytime I go out wasting pellets and air to get it back into zero. I am zeroing in at 50 yards and it will put them in a tight little wad at 50. just diffrent poi. Is there a cure or is this normal for this gun? I had a maurader that never had this issue so I may sell this gun and buy another maurader.
All Replies
I’ve had a laser mounted on my rifle for years, and the green dot never moves off the 1st mil-dot at 30 yards. It wasn’t always like that and it wasn’t my stock that made the improvement, but it was a good start.
Take all your hardware off the frame except your scope and laser, now twist and flex the frame. That laser dot ALWAYS returns to the same place.
Yes the frame will flex, but that’s not what causes your POI to change.
Movement of components inside the frame causes that.
My bushings are fitted to the frame, bonded to the barrel. Removable with a little heat.
The bottle collar is bonded the same way, but I made sure the barrel and top-hat were aligned before bonding the collar. Keep the alignment correct, and the hammer and breech rarely strike each other anything other than full.
The only things that can move in there are the hammer and breech, keep them clean and the o-rings lubed.
Simple really. I spent NO money on that fix other than the epoxy. I sweated and cursed a lot during the process though, Ill admit that.
The accessories: Wokbutt and trigger shoe, tri-rail, and FI’s pellet dispenser are just bonus items. The gripstock I made myself.
You are so correct.
I have not had anywhere near the trials some guys have. Once I figured out not to hold the gun to firmly shifting point of impact decreased. After custom fitting my barrel bushings with some finger nail polish the accuracy stays right on the money if everything is clean and lubed.
I had my Talon for over a year before I made any performance changes.
My Talon Shoots just as accurate as my Air Arms.
The Talon/Condor is much like the Colt 1911…. the better you understand it and make the correct improvements it will shoot like a champ.
I really like my Talon for what it is… A powerful “Take Down Rifle”. To be honest if you want a full stock rifle then that is what should be purchased to begin with. For a take down rifle this gun is hard to beat in the field.
wow, am I glad you are still here 😆
welcome to the dark side and to our big family.
we all get carried away at times like me trying to kill a bottle of California Chianti tonight that isn’t my favorite. damn there is a lot in those round bottles ❗
Bring your family and friends but tell them some of us are crude. This sport is about to go ballistic thanks to many of the contributors especially here on TAG ❗ Oh, and due to our misguided elected professional politicians.
What they have tried to do in NY is igniting a technology that no longer requires gun powder nor can be controlled by anyone but the free,self protecting citizenry.
God Bless you and yours,
Edmund
After killing a coyote with this rifle in almost stock state it really impressed me power wise, so I plan on keeping it and putting a little into it to help with the issue’s. I like how light this gun is over my maurader so taking it out is more enjoyable. Its good to know its not just my rifle being a pos or lemon, I guess they all are LOL.
I got a big wide smile reading all of that. I haven’t had to adjust my scope in over a year unless I switch pellets, and the fix is not done by pouring money into it.
I’ve had a laser mounted on my rifle for years, and the green dot never moves off the 1st mil-dot at 30 yards. It wasn’t always like that and it wasn’t my stock that made the improvement, but it was a good start.
Take all your hardware off the frame except your scope and laser, now twist and flex the frame. That laser dot ALWAYS returns to the same place.
Yes the frame will flex, but that’s not what causes your POI to change.
Movement of components inside the frame causes that.
My bushings are fitted to the frame, bonded to the barrel. Removable with a little heat.
The bottle collar is bonded the same way, but I made sure the barrel and top-hat were aligned before bonding the collar. Keep the alignment correct, and the hammer and breech rarely strike each other anything other than full.
The only things that can move in there are the hammer and breech, keep them clean and the o-rings lubed.
Simple really. I spent NO money on that fix other than the epoxy. I sweated and cursed a lot during the process though, Ill admit that.
The accessories: Wokbutt and trigger shoe, tri-rail, and FI’s pellet dispenser are just bonus items. The gripstock I made myself.
Whats this 446 yard CHALLENGE?
Saying words like that sounds competitive and that AINT the point in the attemp.
OLE’ MAN RC WILL KICK MY ASS and i want my record to stand forever. His guns got more range than mine. 👿
YEAH, I’M JUST A LIL BIT SELFISH!!!! 😆
What good’s permitting some profit of doom to wipe every smile away ❗
Not this time chief ❗
Besides, it is the FEMA camps that some are worried about now 😆
If I rember correctly you sent me to my corner for attempting to discourage a newbie from posting links to chinka knock off sights that are staging unfair economic warfare, violating u.s. patents. Now you are the discouraging one airing all the dirty laundry at once and stating you got rid of yours. Shall we approach newbies positively or unload everything discouraging all at once. Slayer was no help either. Looked like a gang bang to me 😯
Regards
Oh so it is the 1/4-24 replacements that weakens the frame. Wonder what causes it on all the other AF rifles.
The concentration camps are calling you Lurker.
RC
Well, all I can add is that I have made a couple mistakes or so.
But as a few others have, I look forward to even you RC, returning to the proud ranks of owning another AF rifle. Just be more careful and don’t strip out anymore set screws. I think drilling out bigger holes for bigger and more set screws may weaken the frame. Oh, and buy new. It helps the economy and you won’t have more problems than what the product was designed with.
Regards
Yeah we did, you just can’t seem to grasp the facts of POI shift in regards to the platforms short comings.
And you do have as much in your rifle as a I paid for either one of my FX Royales Lurker.
And it would seem your brand loyality would dictate me withholding facts to those asking for advice, perhaps your predisposed to do that, but I am not.
RC
RC,
Happiest of anniversaries to you and your wonderful wife.
As far as hi jacking the thread, elaborating on what a POS the rifle is ‘and that is why you got rid of it,’ over shadows any good advice anyone could give. People are asking for advice on what can be done, not discouragement. Most of your advice has been concise and to the point.
Several times I have referred to the AF airguns as “KITS”. For many of us $600 is hard to justify spending on an air rifle. But since it has potential, everyone makes his own choices of whether to make improvements or save for a top ranked import and be one little more than an expensive hardware shooter. Claims to fame are great but there is a lot more to a sport than winning ribbons. Brand loyalty, why not? It didn’t cost $2-3000.
I enjoy a challenge. I enjoy fixing things. I’ve gotten more good out of one AF rifle than I could have out of two of those other things. Just because I’ll never win a contest doesn’t mean I have no business enjoying what I can do to a mediocre rifle that has great potential.
I’m always looking forward to your concise to the point advice. Did we cover POI shift yet ❓
Regards,
Lurker,
Don’t confuse truthful criticism with negative talk. The truth is the truth, would you rather I lied about the AF design? I really don’t need to do that, Tom Gaylord does that well enough for you AirForce fans.
As far as someone stepping ahead, I was not aware I was in a competition nor was I aware I was leading anyone. As far as beating a 447 yard shot, I would have to travel about 300 miles to get into an area to do that, and that is just not that important to me. I am having fun doing what I am doing here on the land that I live on.
If anyone has stepped forward on improving the Airforce product, it certainly was not me, it was Tony, WOK and more importantly for what I do Dyotat. They have in fact allowed us to make a silk purse out of the proverbial sows ear.
I have been just one of many that have shown that cast bullets in air guns take them to a higher level, my name does not need to be on any trophy, I am just having fun shooting, clanking steel, casting and showing others the way to do the same and enjoy this new sport that Tofazfou, RJ Porter and myself are enjoying.
And I have news for you, 6 or 7 years before we did it, John Bowman had done the same thing.
I won the Oregon State Practical Rifle championship in 1981 and 1985, I won the Oregon Blackpowder Sass long range championship in 2000 and the Oregon Black powder divison of Sass in 2000, and 34 years and one night ago I came in first in the first annual Jerome Jackson shoot in SE Portland, Jerome unfortunately brought a knife. I don’t need to break Tofazfous 447 yard shot, if I in fact even could.
I have had the trophy’s and the tee shirts and I gave them away years ago for they no longer meant anything to me other than being attachments.
Now back to the point.
Until Doug stepped forward on his mods, Tofazfou was considering selling his rifle for parts. Other than the frame and the trigger mechism, everything has been replaced on Tofazfou rifle, and I am sure if Doug built a frame and a trigger group those would be replaced also. Tofazfous rifle does resemble a AF rifle from a galloping horse, but that is about extent of it.
Yes the FX and Daystate, Air Arms and Theobens are pretty much perfect the way they come from the factory. And that is really the point of my post on this thread that we have effectively stolen from SteveB, is that Airforce is not producing the quality rifle they should, and they are not because they are a producing a 600 dollar rifle with poor ergonomics, weak frame, a unsafe fire control system and inconsistant tolerances.
In order to overcome those limitations you spend as much or more than you would for the European air rifle.
The AirForce platform does lend itself to power mods and Dyotats rifles shoot within 150 FPS or less than a Haley, but you can buy a Haley 257 already set up to do that for less money than you can buy a Condor, a tank, a barrel, a valve, a hammer, a heavy spring, have a one piece bushing machined and have it all put together.
If I could not buy a Haley 257 and I wanted to shoot long range, I would have DYotat build me a rifle, probably on the Condor SS frame, and we all know where the inspriation for that came from.
My problem is I just got tired of taking the rifle a part to keep it shooting, and that is what we do with these rifles in the pursuit of better performance, people like Tony, Doug and WOK build excellent parts and guns out of those parts to get them to shoot like a Haley, FX, Daystate, Theoben, AIr Arms et. all.
My question to you is why can’t you acknowledge that instead of telling me I need to beat someones legendary shot?
Now its my 6 th wedding anniversary, and my lovely wife is beckoning me to bed, so goodnight.
RC
RC, you certainly have paid your dues by leading the way for a while.
I thought you would pick up on the 440 yard challenge and help make air rifles CrossOver and become a replacement for powder burners.
It will happen ❗
But we need more innovators like yourself to drive us cattle.
We know the problems with the AF platform but more can and will be done with it than with the more expensive imports that are already near their maximum potential.
Look how far you have come ❗ So why just the negative talk just as someone steps ahead.
Lurker,
I have paid my dues.
And you have one of those rifles I speak of, it cost the same as a FX.
And that is just fine, an air rifle is a personal thing and we have the freedoms to pursue what ever course we want with them, just like we have the freedoms to tell the truth about them.
The test is whether you can put aside brand loyality and admit the faults.
RC
RC is absolutely right about the AF rifles. He’s lived through all the trials and tribulations. And he is absolutely right about how much dinero it takes to get it working like the way it should. I’m afraid to add up what I have spent (and will continue to spend) on this addiction.
I think part of the challenge is that these rifles were not made to shoot heavy slugs/bullets 100 plus fpe. But, it would be really cool if Dyotat could come up with a kickass frame.
My dream rifle would be one that:
shoots 100 plus fpe (maybe say 140-150 fpe)
semi-automatic (being able to quickly double tap a coyote would be nice – with body shots of course)
backyard friendly
accurate
holds POI
trouble free or nearly trouble free
Please don’t get me wrong. I really like the Condor. I like the tactical look. I find shooting pellets with it more fun than my Marauders. And I really like using the Condor to shoot the slugs at night time critters.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
WOK. I like the 1911 analogy. The 1911 .45 can be a terrible shooter, or it can be one of the best shooters on the planet. I’ve had a bushel basket of them. Love a good .45.
I finally broke down and had less Baer build me one, and I have never shot such an accurate pistol. (That I could carry concealed).
The AF guns are much the same way. Mostly loosely assemble parts when you first get them. But with some tender love and care, ie, hard fitting the parts, they can become a tack driver. It just takes learning the platform, and getting it done.
Are they a finely built Euro pcp. NO. But can a Euro pcp go from .117 at low velocity to a 110 fpe pig killer in a few minutes? Hell no. And just look at what RC, Tof, RJ and Walter hav accomplished. AF guns have their place. And that would appear to be, for the owners willing to put in the time and effort, Their place can be any place you want them to be. Short of full on Bench rest competition, They are just about impossible to beat in their versatility. 😉
KnifeMaker