Accuracy question
I am new to the forum and fairly new to airgunning. I am retired and am currently managing an orchard/vineyard. When I started this orchard, I didn’t realized the sheer numbers of pests that want to add the fruit I grow to thier diet. Long story short, I bought a talon ss late last year to help control the pest problem. This year I installed a 24″ .22 cal. stock barrel. After reading through this forum, I must say that I have little air rifle expierence and would like some advice. When I used the AF rifle as a stock ss with the 12″ barrel I used mostly beeman ramjet and crosman premiers and was fairly happy with the results. Because some of the shots may be 50+ yds, I opted for the 24″ barrel. I have tried crosman premiers, RWS super H point and RWS superpoint extra. I can’t seem to get a consistant accuracy out of the new barrel. I am seeing slightly more than 1″ accuracy at 25 yds. This appears to be best with the power setting on 10 on the rifle. I will see two shots dead on and then two go wild, meaning unpredictable maybe left then maybe high right outside of the 1″ ctc. I may have two or three kills at 50 yds, then very unpredicably, I won’t be able to get close. Just today I experience 3 clean misses. Frustrated I shot at a board at 50 yds. and had 2 on center hits and two wild (one 2″ wide right and one 2″ high left). Any advice out there?
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Ooooohhh!!!
😆
You might consider moving to another gun noted for its accuracy. I’m not casting stones at AF guns but they have focused a little more on power and affordability and not ultimate accuracy. You can make a Talon or Condor shoot a little more accurately, but if you need a gun that is a tack driver every time, this is not it.
I have put around 800 rounds through it and have cleaned it 3 or 4 times. I just put in an order for JSB’s to pyramyd air. I have a growing U-pick blackberry operation, several rows of table grapes and a plot of about 85 fruit trees. I use a Crosman 1760 in the blackberries as private property is close by. Most of my shots are below the horizion here and here the talon is overkill. I simply don’t take the 50-100 yd. shots. I cover my grapes with nets so they’re not a problem. My fruit trees are another thing. Last year prior to buying my talon I lost every apple and every peach to bird damage. This year its running about 10% so far. Don’t get me wrong I don’t kill unselectively. Bluebirds, jays, thrashers, mocking birds, song sparrows etc. get a pass and are welcomed for breakfast. But the birds that either come in flocks or that do consistant damage day in day out I send home to it’s Maker. Now shooting in the blackberry patch is below horizion but the apple tree shots are above. I select a vantage point where those shots will land in a very large tract of woods that should be unoccupied with the exception of hunting season. I could get another vantage point looking down on the orchard but I have a golf course and private property immediately in that direction. I understand there is no best option when it comes to risk and I appreciate you guys towing the line here. You don’t know me or my situation so good for you for making your safety concerns. I am giving Tony tuneup a consideration. I first want to get this accuracy problem solved and proceed from there.
If you don’t mind the cost, send it to Tony at Talon Tunes and let him go through it. You will like the result. Just a thought. Have you ever cleaned the new barrel? It might help with the accuracy.
Try JSB exact for sure. Usually the most accurate pellets in most guns. Also Kodiaks. You are being aware of what is down range aren’t you? Perhaps you could put up a tall deer stand in the middle of orchard area so you can shoot down. Like a guard tower. That sounds like fun!
Good Luck
Greetings MichaelR,
I put a 24″ shrouded MAC1 in an early Talon. Similar results to yours. Finally traced it down to the long barrel being able to shift in the frame. Those bushings have a hell of a lever arm to them when you consider the length of the barrel sticking out. Must be why I see all those pretty shrouds around those barrels. I’d imagine it might be more so on an SS.
I ended up lapping the frame ID, miking said ID and turning new bushings out of 12L14 steel. The ID and OD of the bushings is an interference fit. I made a thin tubular spacer between the bushings and slipped them on the barrel after heating them to ~350 F. After making a jig to ensure the proper insertion depth in the frame, I heated the frame to ~200F and slid the barrel/bushings in. After cooling the barrel is rock solid. Then came the drilling and tapping of the grub screw holes. If I have to take it out again (and I will) I’ll strip the frame and reheat. The differential coefficients of expansion between the Al and steel will allow me to get it out.
When I do get it apart, I’ll simplify the approach. Several years ago it seemed a good idea. After doing it the hard way, and coming across excellent sources of info such as this forum, I’ll follow others lead.
The point is, bump your barrel and see if the POI shifts. A sub .001″ shift in the bushings or frame will open up your groupings noticeably.
Sorry for the long dissertation. I’m still irritated by my overengineering compulsion.
Martin
consists of adding two grub screws to the frame to make the trigger adjustable for takeup (creep) and overtravel.
See this post in the quick reference section:
Woah, stop right there. There are no pellets light enough to be safe shooting into the unknown. The difference between hitting someting with 15 grains and 20 isn’t going to make any real difference in the danger to what you hit or your chances of getting into serious trouble because of it. They all come down at about the same speed and at about the same range. Run some data through Chairgun and see. At 20 fpe, JSBs go 550 yards and come down at .88 fpe, Kodiaks go 540 yards and come down with 1.3 fpe. Not enough difference to spit at.
Safe zones are safe zones. If you don’t control what’s downrange you’ve got no business shooting that way.
Period.
Doug Owen
What is a trigger mod?
Yes, tuning makes a difference; If you are happy with the way it performs now, then maybe not worth the extra bucks though.
EXCEPT FOR ONE THING……..The Trigger Mod. If you are not inclined to do it yourself, that is definitely a mod worth paying for.
I guess a chrony is next on the list. Thanks for the info. I can see this forum is going to be a daily check for me. The other question: I am impressed with my talon with either barrel that I own. This is the second talon that I have shot. The first had a more crisp and predictable trigger. Is having my rifle tuned worth the money spent?
If you prefer the lighter pellets, either the CP or JSB should give excellent results. Might try leaving the PW (preload adjuster) at 7-8 and turning the TopHat lower in 1/4 turn increments until accuracy returns.
The power wheel is kind of a joke as it just preloads the hammer spring and when set too low there is not enough tension to make the valve operate consistently. Good for fine tuning but generally needs to be at 6 or better for best accuracy.
MichaelR,
Yes, I would agree with what some of the people have said above about your pellets’ velocities being too great. Good results with CPs can be obtained when they are slowed down to the following velocity range: 700-850 FPS. Try it out.
I have shot Kodiaks with great success from 750 to 850 fps. Very accurate.
I have a tin of the kodiaks that I haven’t opened. I’ll give em a try but with one concern. Most of my shots are above the horizion and am reluctant to send a larger piece of lead toward surrounding property. I will also try dialing back the power in increments. I previously had the power down to minimum for this reason but was not happy with the accuracy there either.
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Well do a little tuning ie: hammer, spring, clean the barrel with JB bore paste, use 1 fill pressure, use a heavy pellet no faster then 980 fps, and this 600.00 rifle will hold it’s own. Don’t make the mistake of comparing i to a rifle costing hundreds more and don’t fool yourself in thinking the more expensive airguns do not have their share of problems such as air leaks, indexing issues, and getting parts.
The Condor Talon are what they are and that is a modular upgradable PCP to learn from. Like to see someone try to learn about PCP’s working with a high end airgun.
If you are okay with paying 2 or 3 times more for an airguns that will only deliver 30 ft lbs then that is the eay to go, as I need 60 ft lbs for hunting past 75 yards. 😈
Oh here is a couple of pictures of stock Condors using the correct combination of variables and of course my Condor.
Randy