DON’T BUY AN HFIRE TANK!!!!!
w/their rifle?? I’ve ordered one but would like to hear from anyone already using one. For those that don’t know, it’s a tank that allows fills up to 4300 psi. Just wondering what you guys are shooting caliber-wise, velocity, number of shots, what you fill/re-fill to. That kind of stuff. Thanks to all!
All Replies
Knife…..
They are test to 500 Bar. 7,521 PSI. And they have a Burst pressure of 1020 bar (just shy of 15,000 PSI)
Dman, how many takers do you need to get another order going on the bottles you provided before? If I remember correctly… it was around 25. Should we get a new posting going to see who else might be interested?
For what it is worth, when an alu, or steel tank ruptures, it is indeed like a few sticks of dynamite, combined with deadly shrapnel. . However, when a Carbon wrapped bottle ruptures, it splits and deg-asses violently, with out shrapnel.
To date, there have been NO injuries from a carbon bottle in the US. There have been many, many injury’s and deaths form steel and alu. tanks letting go at their Dot approved fill pressures!
Also, keep in mind, that each and ever time a bottle is hydro-ed, it is weakened by the very nature of how it has to be done. A bottle that is fine before hydro, can pass and now be a time bomb. Scary as hell, but it is the way it is!
A bottle is normally carried 70% over legal fill pressure for hydro. How many times have we seen it written here and on other forums that even a 100 psi over fill can have a lasting negative effect on a bottle? On a 3000 psi bottle, that is only 2.50%. Humm—
Knife
I know here in the US it is $40,000 just for DOT to build a new tank. Then there is the cost of designing a new bootleg also.
I talked to the owner of crossfire about building a 4500 psi cylinder around the 53 ci size bottle. He said every time he makes bottles there is a DOT inspector there checking the process. They have to test 1 out of every 200 hundred to destruction. They pop around 16,000 psi.
He also said a 62 ci bottle with 4500 psi in it has the same force as 2 sticks of dynamite when it goes.
I also asked if he had ever had one fail. He said yes. It failed the first hydro at 5300 psi.
Doug, was the bottle that failed at 5300 a carbon wrapped or a standard alu. bottle. You didn’t’ specify what it was.
I do know that here in the States, the 4500 CF bottles are tested to 7500 to 7800 psi for hydro, with typical failure being MUCH higher. In the neighbor hood of 17,000 to 18,ooo psi typically.
Dyman, Pleas ask the manufacturer that you received these from what they are tested to, and to what pressure typically fail .
I have filled mine to 4500 many times, and a couple of times a bit over.
Knife
Knife
Remember, just because its not DOT certified doesnt mean it wont work or that it may or may not meet similar standards. My local paintball shop even had filled dmans tank up to 4500 for me, just before I had gave the tank away. They never questioned the legitimacy of the mfg date or hydro label epoxy’d to the tank. Maybe it was an oversight on their part or something. I suppose the label doesnt mean a thing if you are filling it yourself. Look how many timed out and non hydro’d scba tanks are out there being filled at home with shoebox compressors…. Seriously though, if you can find a hydro guy that can do a non official/non compliance safety check first, then use at your own risk once you know what that risk might be….. BIggest catch 22 might be finding any hydro tester that would stick their neck out on the line and be liable just because they gave you the unofficial nod and a wink!
I felt very safe with dmans tank at 3500 psi …. Not knowing for sure about the tank at 4500psi had me a bit concerned, just because of the unknown. My biggest concern was the valve threads remaining seated. I dont know if my fear was legitimate or not. It was based only upon emotion. However, nothing showed remote signs of failure. I regularly run my stock Airforce tank up to 3500… I felt safer with Dmans tank at that pressure, but this was just my gut feeling and not based upon any fact. This was used with a spinlock styled custom aftermarket valve body that did not include a burst disk either. A burst Disk is a highly reccomended and requirement for actual compliance. I wonder just how effective the burst disk is at insuring the safety of one ofthese tanks?
My biggest concern and question is why this tank is being touted as a 4300psi tank and the people that tested it here say its only 3000? Is this Amazon tank only an alloy tank and thats the reason ? I noticed anything above 4k i have ever seen is additionally wrapped in CF and resin coating. Such the case with dmans tank. What do you think about that tank I gave you Doug? Would you run it at 4500 or not ???
Those come from the same Manufacture that i got mine from…….
I emailed them tonight and they emailed me back. I asked for a quote and how many min Qty to get these DOT cert.
here is her reply
“Now for this model carbon fiber cylinder, no one has DOT certificate in China because of high applying charge and complicated application process.”
so more than likely you wont be finding one of these that is DOT cert.
I think the shorter tank is a little over 9”. Just enough room for a reg and pre chamber and reasonable lop.
4th line down on the tank roughly translated says “USA DOT SAY A OTAY” 😎
Ok It probably doesnt say that, but it says something 😕
Well, for those that are remotely interested, I got my tank today- it looks good… There’s some markings up near the neck. I’ll take pictures of those for anyone who might be able to decipher them. The tank is a hair larger around than the standard AF tank, same length though- I tried to put the china tank cover on the HFIRE (I’ve bedded the tank cover to factory AF tank because the fit was loose), and it wouldn’t fit… The coating the chinese put on the HFIRE tank looks and feels good… But now that there’s been some banter back and fourth about these china tanks, I’m wondering if it’s just a 3k tank… I mean, there’s a few of you guys that have dman’s tanks, and you guys are using them over 3k psi w/no worries, right?? I wouldn’t think to go over 4300, but like in one of knife’s threads w/dman’s tank- he saw good results from what, 3800 psi or some such…
I dont know about how great a return on investment it really would be for any investor to build something for such an actual limited and specialized marketplace. $ 40,000 is just the tip of the iceberg. Better wishful thinking would be for airforce to have std system compatible with std paintball pin valve or at least same threads. Of course theres the CO2 valve and a regulator. Or use at your own risk offshore aftermarket…..
I wish some company would just bite the bullet and have a tank made…. im sure, with a worldwide market, they would make their money back… not just in the airgun market, but the paintball market, maybe even the tranquilizer/animal control market, or even police market too!
It would have to be pretty large.
I know here in the US it is $40,000 just for DOT to build a new tank. Then there is the cost of designing a new bootleg also.
I talked to the owner of crossfire about building a 4500 psi cylinder around the 53 ci size bottle. He said every time he makes bottles there is a DOT inspector there checking the process. They have to test 1 out of every 200 hundred to destruction. They pop around 16,000 psi.
He also said a 62 ci bottle with 4500 psi in it has the same force as 2 sticks of dynamite when it goes.
I also asked if he had ever had one fail. He said yes. It failed the first hydro at 5300 psi.
I was told that If i were to Order a large QTY of the 4500 CF bottles they would do them with DOT certificate. I was told that a a small qty would not be economical.
Not sure what they consider large QTY. Im talking bout the Bottles that i had brought over not the Hfire ones
I bought one of these tanks hoping that it would be great for the .30 and higher builds.
Being from over seas it got me a little concerned, so I sent it off to an extremely reliable and knowledgeable source.
Astoria Scuba and Adventure Sports, LLC
100 39th Street
Pier 39-Astoria
Astoria, Oregon 97103
http://www.astoriascuba.com
http://www.pier39-astoria.com
503-325-2502
Here is my reply…..
We hydroed the bottle, it Passed.
Here is what I have found out:
We can not mark the bottle as it is not authorized for use in the US, and its rating is only 3000PSI.
We are attempting to see if this company from Shanghai has submitted for a US DOT Permit
I have asked Worthington MFG to see if they can match the specs and have a 3300 PSI Bottle with the same size, would that suffice?
This bottle is not legal in the U.S. unless it is cleared by the DOT.
Hope this helps, Tony
Wow!, glad that someone took the intiative and had the foresight to have this thing properly tested. Good looking out! Well thats kinda bummer that it is too good to be true….
It seems that its use is at your own risk if you dare !
They obviously have ratings and standards for a good reason and why they require certification….
Your sample quasi passed hydro from a physical standpoint but was uncertifiable due to D.O.T. registration compliance.
Obviously anyone that dares to use such cylinder would be wise to have some sort of testing done first, however the catch 22 being that most any hydrotesting facility will likely fail the cylinder strictly on the issue of compliance in the first place.
Also you must consider the integrity of the seller and manufacturer for advertising these as being rated at 4500psi…..
Its interesting that the independent tester -Austoria Scuba, would only “rate” these at 3000psi. I dont question their assertion but I am curious as to the parameters, qualities or differences that makes for a 3000psi “rated” tank versus a 4500psi rating.
Why not just test to the claimed 4000+ ? If its a failure it a failure. I dont quite understand the ” IF it was passable…. It would only pass at 3000 but it cant”???
The tank is purported to be a 4000+ tank and it fails period!
But if you must insist it would pass for 3000 but cant…
Once again buyer beware and understand you get what you pay for….
What price do you place on the safety of yourself and the responsibility for the safety of those that are around you?
Thanks for publishing these results and for your hydro facility for being so matter of fact with their info too. I have heard stories of hydro-testers that will simply destroy or render a cylinder useless upon failure to comply with testing.
Please do let us know if you come up with a suitable 4000+ bottle for our performance applications!
Dot if for commercial use in the USA. No DOT, no retail sales, no industrial use. No second party filling. There is an ISO number which is recognized internationally. And has to meet rigid. standards. Now who knows if the number is faked or not. It is China after all!
Every time some one here mentions the low quality of Chinese tools, one person in particular gets on their case. But there are NO standards over there unless under the direction of ISO. So beware!!!
I would love to see one tested to failure. Or at least to the 70% over fill hydro test.
Knife
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I’m still wondering though- were Tony’s tests accurate, and these HFIRE tanks are really only a 3k tank? Or is the HFIRE tank a legit 4350 tank? I mean, based off of knife’s work w/his rifle, I’d only need 3800 psi…