EdGun Matador Standard in 177 **150 Shot String Update**
What can I say…
First thought…
HOLY FUCKING SHIT. This thing is AWESOME.
It’s an EdGun Matador R3 Standard 177 cal.
18″ barrel, single screw trigger, new bolt model.
So easy to shoulder and shoot offhand. Steady, good ergonomics for offhand, no rail cant issues so far at 25-30 yards, lots of up clicks left, good weight, not too heavy and not too light.
The trigger is like butter without any adjusting after taking it out of the box.
Looks like it will work well for the seated position in field target too. Needs a little height at the fore rest and a thigh rest to make it rock solid. Trigger is in an acceptable location.
Ran a few pellets over the chrony after cleaning the barrel.
JSB Exact Heavies 10.34 grain are running a bit hot at 1033fps.
CPH Heavies Die ‘I’ 10.5 grains are running a little less hot at about 995fps.
Haven’t run a string yet but will do tomorrow.
Stock grain is relatively plain yet uniform, no real issues. There is spot or two on the left side top that are somewhat rough but relatively unnoticeable.
The anodizing is excellent and all the blacks match.
Cocking effort is less than my S400 and the bolt closes like a dream.
Pending accuracy testing and getting the pellets down to just under 900fps this rifle, dare I say work of art, not only meets my expectations so far it easily surpasses them.
:8:
All Replies
Syn, I finally got the time to read your post and reply.
On the Matadors, the HST and regulator work in unison. Their settings have to be matched for you to get the best out of the Matador.
Your reg is currently set too high for the gun to shoot a consistently flat shot string at speeds in the 890s. You had to cut the hammer spring down and turn the HST most of the way out to get in the 880-890 range. With a full fill, you currently don’t have enough HST for the hammer to either open the air valve fully or, keep it open long enough or both.
That is causing the speeds to rise as the air tube pressure drops. As the pressure drops, the hammer doesn’t have to work as hard to open the air valve fully and keep it open long enough to get the max speed that the reg is set for. You are currently doing half assed measures and trying to force the gun do something that it can’t do with the setup that you currently have.
There are at least 2 topics here where guys turned their Matadors down to 12 fpe. You might want to do a search for them. They either cut the hammer spring down or replaced it with a weaker one. They also both removed the transfer port copper sealing ring and replaced it with a “T” shaped Teflon sleeve. The top part of the “T” took the place of the copper sealing ring and the tail of the sleeve went down into the transfer port and it had a smaller ID that restricted the air flow. They both also turned the reg down.
I would NOT be happy with a max spread of 24 fps over 120 shots! 120 shots is great but; the 24 fps max deviation wouldn’t work for me. Your reg is currently set too high and you are using a way too soft hammer spring to get the speeds down. IF it was my gun, I would turn the reg down and then turn the HST up until I got the highest speeds. If my max speeds are higher than what I want, the reg needs turned down a little more.
IF/WHEN you adjust the reg, remember to turn the HST out at least 1 turn, 2 would be better, and then turn it back in 1/8 turn each time until you get your max speed. If you don’t turn the HST screw out after the reg adjustment, you could easily be on the “back side” of the reg and your speeds will initially drop and then start to rise again after each HST adjustment.
Way back when, Mamcrackin and I got the first 2 R2.5 25 longs that made it to the US. They shot the 25.4 grain JSBs at 1050 fps. There was NO tuning info available back then so: we exchanged many phone calls and PMs, got some info from Ed and we tried tuning the guns ourselves. We both ended up being on the “back side” of the reg and it drove us nuts! How could turning the HST up give a lower fps? One of us got an email from Ed about being on the “back side” of the reg.
Now you are going to ask me how much to turn the reg down? I can’t tell you. Doing the search would give you the info but, if it was my gun, I would pull the reg, mark the reg adjusting screw and housing, so I knew where I started and call it 12 o’clock, I would then turn it clockwise out to 3 o’clock and see where I was.
Nobody gets it right the first time. It will take you a couple reg adjustments to be golden but; if you get 150 shots and the last speeds are 927 fps, you should easily get 150 shots, at 880-890 fps with a 8-10 fps max deviation for the string after some tuning. Once you turn the reg down, your current HST setting, or maybe a little more, will be able to fully open the air valve for a very flat shot string.
Sorry for the long post, I got off from work at 2 AM, I had a couple of beers and shots AND: YOU asked! 😆
Possibly the only one in the USA before mine… 😉 My sn is #0510.
Ed has said he sends the 177’s to the UK mostly.
I actually had to cut the spring to turn it down enough to shoot around 900. I tried some CPH pellets but they didn’t do too well.
I just found out I have a 40 yard indoor range I can shoot at so i’ll be doing some testing there to see what works best without ANY wind. 😀
Ok, so I have the first R3 177 in the USA! 😆
I have had a .177 standard Edgun Sn#1986 for over three years it is the go to gun for starlings it was the only one in .177 made until yours.
Like yours mine shoots over 110 shots on a fill and I ONLY shoot 10.5 CPH’s. Tried JSB’s and they will not group as well as crossmans.
Like you turned down the speed with the hammer spring and now it has well over 10,000 shots and never been touched since i set it up three years ago.
120-150 shots per fill. Wow
That’s what I was afraid of, another Edgun to add to the wish list. 😀
So now the question to Ed is, could we order one through Tony?? (I know you typically don’t send .177 to the US)
thanks
lars
The wind was crazy here too – even in my valley. Sounds great on shooting. So what do you do to get it FT ready?
Went and shot groups at 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40 & 45 yards…
The wind was crazy, gusting easily to 25-30mph. Between the gusts I was able to do some groups and check the pellets that my USFT didn’t like.
The EdGun likes them!! 😀 All the groups were better than expected even for the crazy wind.
Best five shot group at 40 yards was slightly over 3/8″.
It’s one thing to shoot a bad rifle in lots of wind and not get good groups. It’s another thing entirely to shoot a good rifle in crazy wind and get better than expected groups.
This rifle at 40 yards in the conditions today did just as well as my USFT and perhaps slightly better. All shots were made with the JBS Heavy pellets.
On a side note when zeroed at 30 yards I needed 56 clicks up to get to 10 yards and only 7 clicks to be on at 40 yards.
Usually it’s close to 100 clicks at 10 yards with a 30 yard zero. The added benefit here is that I don’t have to rotate one complete turn up at 10 yards. It can be really easy to forget in the match that you are one rotation over and it’s REALLY screws up the next bunch of shots or possibly the rest of the match.
One thing that was unusual was that I didn’t have to click between 25-35, typically it is no clicks between 28-32 yards. This rifle has ten yards of zero as opposed to five yards of zero.
Ed, you have created a winner!!! Thanks again!!!
Next step is some custom bits to get it field target ready and i’m gonna put EdGun on the FT map here in the states!!! :4:
177 JSB Diabolo Exact Heavy 10.34 grains… 😉
Which pellet?
20 yards, 0.1″ ctc, 5 shots. A small ragged hole.
Still need to stretch it out some this weekend at the range to see how it shoots to 65 yards.
But…
I can already tell this thing is going to be wicked.
Did a quick group with a decent set of pellets off a really crappy rest, shaky as shit.
20 yards, 0.1″ ctc, 5 shots. A small ragged hole.
Still need to stretch it out some this weekend at the range to see how it shoots to 65 yards.
But…
I can already tell this thing is going to be wicked.
Nice gun. But how does it do on sparrows? 😆
Good to hear the .25 std is quiet.
I thought that was going to be the answer……… 😎
my .25 standard is as quite as my .22 Airwolf with a Huggett….
I have been looking for a .177 . I also have a .177 cal with a gen2 break
for my USFT. I felt I could find something better……should have guessed !
Well……what’s one more Edgun
I have a basic Radio Shack sound meter (has not been professionally calibrated but it’s pretty close).
At 12″ from the muzzle, rifle pointed directly at the meter it was 75 decibels (weights A & C). This is at about 900fps with the heavy pellets…
When I first cut the spring and reinstalled everything it was shooting at 750fps and it was extremely quiet. 😯 Like just a ‘click’ quiet…
This is by far the most quiet air rifle I have had yet. My USFT with the Gen2 mod is relatively quiet. My other USFT with the custom full length carbon fiber shroud is even more quiet than the Gen2 mod.
This EdGun is half as loud as my most quiet USFT. 😯
You had me at .177 😀
Now it looks like I am going to need a 177 cal……
My big question ….how is the noise level….I really need something “Uber Quite”
So I dove in and worked on adjusting the HST. 😀
Current velocity is way too hot for my liking.
I’m not much for using a wrench with serrated jaws to turn things and muck them up so I taped everything off and cut a nice slot in the top of the aluminum sleeve that sets the tension so I could use a flat blade screwdriver to adjust it in the future.
I backed it out a full turn and the speed lowered from 1030 to 970. Backed it out another full turn and then decided to check and see how many threads were left.
Not many. 😯
So I took out the spring and checked to see how many turn in I could go, measured full in and full out and split the difference and made sure to err on the side of keeping as much spring as possible.
Then I took a Dremel cut off tool and cut the spring down 1/8″ and flattened down the end. I added a little more depth to the slot I had cut and cleaned everything up. As a final touch I made one half of the slotted end color red so I could easily see my adjustment rotations.
I touched up the threads where the set screw had made a mark and put everything back together and just set the action in the stock so I could shoot it across the chrony, check the velocity and then pull it out of the stock and set the HST screw.
After a few adjustments I reached as close as I could get to 890, which was about 880 and locked the HST in place and set the action in the stock properly for the test string. Filled her up to 200bar and began the long and painful process of chronying a rifle that is expected to get lots of shots per fill..
The string started at 880fps and pretty much stayed that way for 120 shots (with a high of 888 and a low of 864).
120 shots with a 24fps spread (10.34 grain pellets). Not bad at all for a quick adjustment of the HST to get the velocity down.
At shot 122 the velocity started to rise, at shot 126 it was at 900 and slowly rose to 927 for the 150th shot before I stopped.
Starting pressure @ 200bar (3000psi)
Shot 20 @ 185bar
Shot 40 @ 165bar
Shot 60 @ 155bar
Shot 80 @ 140bar
Shot 100 @ 125bar
Shot 120 @ 115bar
Shot 140 @ 100bar (1500psi)
Ending pressure @ 95bar
From what I have read it sounds like it is coming off the reg at shot 125 or so and the reg is set too high?
I’m not sure I am at the point where I want to mess with the regulator. 😕
I wonder if I raise the velocity to around 900 if it will not rise as much at the end of the string. And i’m also thinking that 120 shots with a 24fps spread is pretty good at this point.
So far this rifle has been a joy to work on and modify. Sorry Ed, I know you are probably shaking your head as you read this, well at least I didn’t mess with the regulator!!! 😆
Next up is accuracy, i’m only looking at a range of 10 to 65 yards. I’m feeling pretty comfortable that at these velocities the JSB exact heavies will work just fine. 😀
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I have one .177 Standard Matador left in stock.