Help Me Please!!!
I’ve owned my bird for over a year, and actually got a second one for my 10 year old son. We love shooting them, and Ive done a few functional upgrades to mine, but not messed with the internal parts yet (soon).
I always fill to 3000psi, or whatever my scuba tank has left in it. I notice people are always stating their tank fill pressure ie. 2800, 2900psi.
Why wouldn’t you fill every time to the mx capacity of your tank? Does it make a difference, doesnt the tophat spring and air pressure in the tank essentially regulate the same ammount of air with each hammer strike?
Please explain. I’m not looking for the scientific reason, just a general laymans reply.
Thanks
All Replies
LOL, That’s where i am at, i have played hard with the condor and spent allot of time learning where things need to be for a specific velocity,and to get the minimal variation, always getting the chrony out!!, so i have just been shooting for a while now,
14 grain pellets and i couldn’t even tell you where my top hat is, somewhere around .080 , i have to turn the top hat up for winter and fine tune the power wheel slightly , then back down for hot weather to keep the velocity around 800 fps.
SHOOT SHOOT SHOOT, no tuning 😆
This is how bad it is, i pretty much can tell when the velocity has changed , i go in shoot the the chrony in the house, adjust, shoot a few more to see where i am at , then just leave her there and shoot until weather changes again.
No, no, no , no no!
I have shot everywhere from 1020fps, down to my current 900fps.
I have done the 100 shots over the crony SEVERAL times.
I’m real happy at 900fps, and I think it has the best accuracy I have ever had. I’m tired of shot strings and curves. I can live with a 20fps or so variance, it not bad. The only thing I may try at some point in the future is shoot at 800 or 850, just so I can see the pellets fly.
I’m done, time to go kill stuff!
Ah… Makes way more sense now. Hard to shoot low velocity with light pellets with a hotrod valve and a light hammer…
And nearly a whole inch of top hat gap!!! 😆 😆 😆
I know a typo, actual is 0.09″. 😉
I thought you had a stock setup. 😯 😀
With my setup and a bigger tophat gap I might get those 9 ringers up to 700 fps… 😡
So in context your set up is a success since it’s a pretty wacky arrangement of parts and pellets. Have you considered investing in a stock Condor tank and valve? Keep the TT tuned one for the power stuff and the hunting (Surefire) slugs since it’s probably making things a bit difficult for lighter pellets and low velocities. The “problem” is that valve is as smooth as silk and offers better consistency over that of a stock valve.
Synopsys,
Yes I am sure if I changed things up, I could get a few more shots.
I’m happy with 25 shots and I have a Shoebox, conserving air is not an issue.
.90 tophat, 18″ barrel, TT High flow, 27.8G benji’s, 65gr hammer.
That was the whole reason for it, Keep the door open for some of Jerry’s smaller slugs, 5 or 7 rings, I think I would need to put the heavier 95gr hammer back in for the 9 rings. Which I just don’t wanna do, but I could.
I could fill to 2200, and shoot a string on the curve at 875-885 pw2
Fill to 2400 and shoot at 915-930 pw4
Fill to 2500…930-950 pw5
I wanted 900fps as a bottom end velocity
My 65 grain hammer just can’t go much over 2600psi and stay on the curve.
But I could crank the pw up to 12-13 and spit those pellets out at over 1000. Good enought to catch the down side of the curve, and good enough to shoot a few 7 ring slugs..
Its all a compromise
MrN, of course it’s not a fair comparison… 😉 That’s why I used it… 😆
I’m curious, what is your top hat set at and what is your pellet weight for those strings? Of course we are looking to do two different things but I still think you could get more shots with some fiddling and a bigger fill, unless your also looking to open things up and shoot heavier pellets with a full fill without messing around with the tophat settings. Which is where the partial fill approach could come in handy.
PB’s numbers are just sick. His name should be noreg regulator dude… 😆 And it just isn’t for low power shooting either…
Ken, I put a new Condor valve in a tank with the tophat set at 0.088″ from the factory (and about where I wanted it for 32 grain pellets) and those were the first 20 shots out of the tank… No tune, no nothing, just install, fill and shoot with the power wheel set at halfway.
I was looking to shoot at 50-75 yards in about a 5-10mph cross wind and it happened that everything was ready to go without messing with it. With some tuning I would probably get the max velocity in the mid 900’s and increase the shot count by 10-15 shots but still start from a full 3000psi fill…
Maybe I’m wrong but it sounds like you are both right but are trying to achieve two different Tunes.
Synopsys it sounds like you are tuning for Maximum Velocity curve and Mrnewbie is tuning for a Flatter Velocity curve.
My JSB’s are more suited to Synopsys’s Tune with more velocity but my Crow magnums are more suited to Mrnewbie’s Tune with lower velocity and a flatter curve.
Synopsys, I am curious if in the end, you also used as many pellets to achieve your desired curve as Mnewbie or did you just get lucky with that first 20 shot 3000 fill without changing the Top Hat and shooting more test strings? 😀
here is a high power tune for ya hog feeder,22 Condor 24″ barrel
for tight string 2700 psi fill top hat .100 with .071 oring, power wheel 10
32 grain eunjin,
(this is with 2 settle shots before starting string after fill, one usually does it, but i take two )
991.993.993.1002.1004.998.997. end psi 2550 this is for shooting tightest groups.
now same setting , but fill to 3000
985.981.985.992.986.983.984.1018.1023.1018.1012.1018.1012.1011.1007.1004.1002.1003.987
will not keep as tight of a group because of the variation , but gives more shots for hunting etc.
synopsys
that is a nice consistant short string , thats what i am after most of the time.
🙂
well, i’m just saying, his first string he had, starts in the high 400’s peaks at like 880 or so at 75 shots , then is heading back down , so figure about 70 shots on the way back to the high 400’s.
OK, i see what your saying he has a 300 fps variation, Yeah that could be tightened up huh.
Didnt, read the last post, yep , yu have it going on now mrnewbie.
and that is how i learned to tune the condor , shoot long strings thru the chrony, while shooting groups with the differant pellets to find where each pellet wanted to group the best. 😉
Thats not fair,
That 100shots is not my shot string, that was shooting pellets and wasting air to find the shot string curve.
Which is between shots 70-95, everyhing else was just finding the spot!It was my goal to have a decent string at 900fps- shots 70-95.
Forget all shots before 70 and all shots after 95, thats my shot string.
That is where I was shooting, 25 shots from 860-900- back down to 860.
PB does have a good low power shot string, lost of shots. Be great for plinking in the basement or back yard. But this was not my goal, my goal was to find the curve as a starting point.
Although this is a diff example, perhaps it will make the point, no 100 shot strings for me. So thinking that 100 shot (find the curve) test was my shot string and taking the whole 100 shots into account and compairing it to yours was just unfair.
It was presented as an example of how the Hammer/spring and tank pressure all interact..
Yeah because you couldn’t shoot it like that if you wanted to… Your poi will change SO much that it would be IMPOSSIBLE to hit anything for the strings…
Not EVEN close to what yours is over the string, if you look at the whole thing… Mine= 106, yours=390…
I see 30-40 useable shots in your string, which isn’t all that great compared to my 20 and what these things can actually do from a full fill at 880fps… (your string has a 130 fps max difference for shots 60-100 which is only a 40 shot string).
If you take my 20 shot max difference in fps and create a selected string from your string, your only getting about 30-35 shots comparatively… It’s not that good actually, read around and you’ll see. I have done better (less variance and more shots) using the proper strike force and getting around 900pfs of velocity from a full fill.
I’m not trying to be a dick, just saying your working from the wrong side of things if your looking for 880 fps and a max shot count.
PB has done what would be considered the proper tune for max shots at 550fps on a short fill with about the same variances I had with triple the useable shots you had… To get a consistent 550fps velocity you have to short fill.
PB, where are you getting that he has a 150 shot string per fill from (I see three strings from three fills and less that 150 shots) and going from 480-880 fps over the fill is what you’d call perfect? 😕 What you have is perfect for plinking and a 150 shot string, no coffee this morning? 😆
Now get your bad boy self out there and try for 50-75 shots at 880fps with less than 100fps variation from a full fill. 😀
newbie that looks like the perfect plinking tune right there ,that 150 shots, hope you took notes so you cold go back to it if you wanted,
i have a setting almost exactly like , that i can go to for plinnking.except with lower fill pressure.
Filled to 2000,Pw 3 , top hat .055 with .071 oring
504.514.507.506.493.496.493.501.505.520.524.530.530.532.537.534.548.
544.548.539.529.536.489.515.529.525.532.538.538.534.533.535.534.533.
535.539.542.543.543.536.543.545.548.547.547.550.553.553.557.486.552.
570.560.558.559.551.550.559.564.562.546.549.534.533.529.572.545.592.
585.520.580.582.581.583.520.547.547.539.530.548.548.544.554.550.551.
553.550.555.558.539.540.539.539.540.541.569.575.572.571.563.541.553.
556.552.550.589.583.584.586.559.540.542.574.578.573.575.589.594.((612))597.591.525.560.484.568.572.586.577.587.538.586.568.589.534.551.550.
539.542.534.545.552.540.546.556.557.529.523.524.524.528.579.559.558
.568.588.526.505.525.497.533.521.556.526.531.549.520.517.518.513.516
.512.520.514.508.512.516.502.496.493.
used like 700 psi
1300 left.
179 shots
That’s an example of really poor tuning perhaps… If you want velocities that low (10 meter type velocities) get a regulator Etac and it will stay at 550 to 800 for the whole string. That string is bassakwards but does show that the spring setting eventually evened out with the fill pressure.
Poor tuning, no way! Perfect in every way.
I was looking for the tank fill pressure where the spring/hammer evened out with the fill pressure(giving a shot curve), while the power wheel is on 3, while shooting at around 900fps. I’m not just lookin for a good shot string.
I just did not realize it was gonna take till around 75shots or 2300psi before I found that balance point. Was thinking 2700-2800psi.
I dont actually shoot it like that. I stay on the curve like everyone else. I was looking for the curve.
Take a look at that shot string starting at shot number 70=854fps down to 25 shots later 95=846, with the peak of 880 in the string.
Thats a fps variance of only 26fps on the low side and 34 on the high. I don’t even consider this variance good.
All that remained was to figure out the exact fill pressure of 2300psi to get 25shots in this area.
Now look at your shot string, 20 shots and how much variance? But then again, thats the price you pay for power.
Damn, I’m a bad boy 🙄
😯 😕
That’s an example of really poor tuning perhaps… If you want velocities that low (10 meter type velocities) get a regulator Etac and it will stay at 550 to 800 for the whole string. That string is bassakwards but does show that the spring setting eventually evened out with the fill pressure.
From a 3000 psi fill we are usually talking 10 or fewer shots before the velocity hits it’s peak… That string takes nearly 75 shots to get to the top of the curve with the max velocity being twice the minimum velocity which will change your poi too much to account for in a shooting session. That is unless you like a challenge. 😆
Here is a string from the notebook.
1. 918
2. 954
3. 965
4. 938
5. 958
6. 985
7. 1017
8. 1021
9. 1024
10. 1016
11. 1015
12. 1017
13. 1015
14. 1013
15. 1005
16. 1003
17. 1000
18. 995
19. 992
20. 981
Start psi: 3000
End psi: 2400
0.088″ tophat
31.5 grain pellet
.25″ cal
24″ barrel
65/65 temp/humidity
3/14/2010
Ahhhhh! I see said the blind man! Now that is a simple black and white perfect explination of what I was missing.
Awesome. BTW, HOLY SHOT count Batman! Thats ridiculousness!!
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you would get more fills from scuba with a 2800 fill.