I’m Under-whelmed….
AF hasn’t had an original thought since they developed the basic design.
There have been SO MANY improvements made by the shooting public on this brand, that it’s almost difficult to bring all of them to mind at one time.
How has AF reacted? They improved the trigger safety mechanism. Made a Talon SS Junior with their “pistol”, and now made a “Talondor” (Escape) years after our forum member perfected the idea with a full shot count, and power to spare. AF still couldn’t get it right…they put a tiny air soft tank on this Talondor clone, made it as loud as a powder burner, and ruined it’s true potential.
Long after we made the Condor dead silent, they still can’t get past some ancient design baffles, and shroud designs, to simply cut the discharge blast.
AF is a fun gun to play with. But…you will never recover your cost in mods, and I guarantee that after you have taken the expensive “Mod An AF” hands-on self taught course, you WILL want to move on to a quality pcp. Just consider the cash invested, but lost at re-sale, as tuition to learn the basic of how to mod a pcp. Then move on to the big boys where top quality is the starting point!
Shame. So much potential, so little incentive in their shop, to make the AF line a top end pcp instrument at the get-go. It’s bad news when Crosman/Benjamin beats you at your own game, and at a lower cost to boot. Two American success stories cut off at the knees by their own R&D department. When will either of these companies learn to listen to their owner/users???
Hoot:
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Hoot you been around long enough. You act like this is new news =)
That’s great to know! Thanks!
I agree with hoot that they need to step up their game. Maybe a Airforce custom shop that charges a premium for options and tuning.
And on the escape SS.. AF confirmed, there is no problem with using the optional standard hi flow tank if you want higher shot count.
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dont know about arm and a leg , but his work is great , by reading feed back
I think the Talon SS is great. You can add baffles, top hat o-ring for better air consumption, and it’s large tank allowed high power or tons of low power shots depending on pressure.
I agree with hoot that they need to step up their game. Maybe a Airforce custom shop that charges a premium for options and tuning.
I agree .
Buuuuuut
you know i’m going to start saying fine tuned air force, instead of just air force
with a stock air force no comparison, absolutely end of story
but with a finely tuned air force condor you can match the accuracy of the cricket , for the short string , you can’t keep up , because of lack of regulator for continued consistency
those cricket are putting down some crazy 12 shot groups, very nice, and well built gun apparently
the air force has to be tuned to meet this accuracy,(and only for a short string without a regulator)and well broken in for peak performance.
Hows that guys
and i have said this many times , telling it like it is, have had lengthy conversations in private with guys trying to make up their minds on a gun, if you don’t want to spend the time tuning , you better spend allot more money or get a regulator.
i was all over getting a regulator for a bit, but i have learned to tune my rifle , so haven’t had any set backs, for a while , when it starts acting up i pretty much know what to change and away i go.
Agreed.. Like I stated, I am far from an expert on this stuff and I have no experience with a tuned AF and do not doubt that they match up well with the higher end PCPs like the Cricket.. Was just trying to give a general opinion on the AF – Cricket comparison.
As I am currently using my AFs.. the $900 cost difference / weight difference between the 2, makes the AF stand out above the Cricket for my uses. If I was sitting on a bench, didnt want to tune (something I personally like to deal with) and strictly was looking for Accuracy and efficiency, Cricket would be the one for me.
No pro, just love PCPing 😉
dhoffs
I agree .
Buuuuuut
you know i’m going to start saying fine tuned air force, instead of just air force
with a stock air force no comparison, absolutely end of story
but with a finely tuned air force condor you can match the accuracy of the cricket , for the short string , you can’t keep up , because of lack of regulator for continued consistency
those cricket are putting down some crazy 12 shot groups, very nice, and well built gun apparently
the air force has to be tuned to meet this accuracy,(and only for a short string without a regulator)and well broken in for peak performance.
Hows that guys
and i have said this many times , telling it like it is, have had lengthy conversations in private with guys trying to make up their minds on a gun, if you don’t want to spend the time tuning , you better spend allot more money or get a regulator.
i was all over getting a regulator for a bit, but i have learned to tune my rifle , so haven’t had any set backs, for a while , when it starts acting up i pretty much know what to change and away i go.
Hey ,
its all good, when i don’t want to tune any more i will break down and get a regulator for my condor, but for now i like being able to turn it up and shoot 32 grain pellets to an accuracy max of 930’s , and a hunting accuracy max of right at 1000 fps,
then turn it down to 550 fps with 14 grain pellets and shoot indoor 10 m silhouette
Hey , you all buy those expensive rifles and shoot them, and post about it, i love reading about it.
back to loading , the little 380 is not wanting to print with the 100 grain round nose cast bullet i have a mold for, im sizeing to 357,just using the sizer i already have for 38 and 357 , bore is 355 , i would think that would work fine , may need to get a 356 sizer ,loading with WINN 231 to about 800 fps for paper loads
I know its a 30′ gun, but i want to be able to stack em at 30′ :biggrinn:
PB,
Well we probably do agree on one thing, Unique is called Unique because it certainly is. It is a splendid handgun powder and a very good cast bullet propellant in cases up to 30-06.
My problem with the AF design is that I have arthritis in both my thumbs at the wrists from years of using chain saws and I just got tired of the pain at night from tearing the rifles down and working on them to keep them shooting. As a result I found the various FX’s and AA S410 I have had to be a relief to my hands.
I typically stay out of the posts and just try to learn a little from all and am in no way a professional shooter, but have been successful enough over the past 15 years..for what it’s worth, My first PCP was an AA s410 SL Carbine FAC .22 and for 7 years.. yea, it was good enough not to touch it. Plenty of power, accurate as anything I have tested, really quiet and I Never had a single problem with it in the entire time I had it. Cost me about $1250 back then.. somewhat between the AFs and the Crickets on Price now a days… I Sold it a few months ago and wish I had could take it back. Bang for the buck, AA is top of line in my humble opinion.
That said, I recently purchased and sold (wish i had that one back too) a cricket .25 tactical, I currently have a Evanix .357, stock Condor SS .25 and am currently using an Escape SS .25, as I have been hiking a lot while pest-ing on the property where I shoot. For what it’s worth, in my opinion there is just no comparing a Condor with a Cricket.. its a different league all together. Its like comparing a very nice 350Z to a GTR.. yea, you can make the 350 keep up, but it will never be a GTR.. as it shouldn’t be, being that Its less than 1/2 the price of the Cricket.
This condor and Escape are great for the money but are far less capable, at least in my hands, then my AA or the Cricket I sold. Yea the AFs I have are stock.. but so were the Cricket an AA s410. The AA and Cricket are just better in every category other than weight. But are they 8 or 900$ better.. I don’t think so, but do I still wish I had them both back..yes! 100yd and up, shooting with a solid repeater just cant be beat for fun. I can honestly say There is no way in h*** my condor or escape is consistent enough to be anything other than a long shot or random 3peat at those distances.. and again, this is with the rifle in my hands..not a pro. But with the Cricket especially, consistent 100yd placement’s were actually somewhat easy.. a little too easy sometimes. But then again, try hiking and stalking around with a 12LB cricket and you will want AF for sure..
Anyways.. All PCPs have there place in my book. It just depends on your exact needs..
My 1 1/2 cents
DH
Wow ,
there you go again, i did not say you were illiterate .
Far from it , i have complimented you in the past
You really seem to be good at misreading or coming to some wrong conclusions right now.
Haven’t Said air force is magic or mythical either, all you have to do is look at one to see that it would not shoulder correctly .
I am just amazed at how accurate they can be.
there have been times i wanted to break it over a stump, then i would get it back into its tune, oiling this or , tweaking this or that.
I have had people private message me for advice about air force rifles, and i told it like it is, no sugar, from 1/4” 50 yard groups to having to retune constantly due to changing temperature. and they actually didn’t buy one.
I do not put anything on this forum or anywhere else for that matter that i would not say to any ones face. or do in front of them
I am not boastful, i keep to my self for the most part, and i really had no intentions of posting pics of groups and such on this forum . but i learned allot about these rifles, and changed my mind to try a help people that were having hell with there guns.
I just like a challenge i suppose . well maybe not like, maybe i am just hardheaded and don’t know when to give up, and get lucky and make things work that weren’t supposed to in the first place
I’m going to go finish loading 357 sigs i have been working on this evening
OH , and speaking of challenge, i picked up a little 380 back up, that im working up loads for,ive got a 102 grain rem golden saber up to 1100 fps, it is a horse to shoot, the gun ways 11.5 oz loaded. 4.7 grains of Unique , dont want to shoot to many of these thru it. primers are flat but look fine, starting to get slight case bulge
Later
PB,
Yeah that must be it, I am illiterate.
Or perhaps I simply do not know how to shoot or is it I just did not get that magical one?
They do fill a niche in the air gun world for powerful inexpensive take down air gun, if you don’t add anything to them to keep them as a bargain and shoot them in the peculiar method needed to not flex the frame.
I think Hoot summed it up pretty well in the first post in this thread.
Your pretty funny .
You need to learn how to read, i suppose.or is it reading composition.
here you go, a quick Wikipedia
Reading comprehension is the ability to read text, process it and understand its meaning.
PB,
‘Three shots in one hole at 50 yards, hell it will do that at 100 yards, and most of these rifles are capable of that.’ (Paraphrasing of course due to my lack of knowing how to do the quotes here)
That is truly astounding, for lack of a better word, like unbelievable, that your saying that is the norm for AF Condors and all are capable of this accuracy.
Three shots in one hole you say at 100 yards.
Yes, everyone has a rifle that will shoot a stellar group now and then out of hundreds of groups. I shot a 1.5 ” group for three shots once at 265 yards, but it was a fluke and I had the good sense to stop shooting after 3 shots.
Fact is that 2 or 3 shot groups, with the last two opening up the group prove absolutely nothing as far as consistency in a rifle, I repeat absolutely nothing other than the rifle is incapable of shooting a consistent 5 shot group without the last two or three wandering.
Sorry just can’t let that one fly past my bullshit meter without reporting on it.
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Bennee is a weenie!!!
There! That should shut you up. Nanner nanner nanner…..
Hoot: