In Defense of the auto mechanism, old thread, got off topic
Some will be surprised with this but I have kind of debriefed my shooting experience of yesterday and I think I was just not ” getting it “. This is my opinions only and is intended to kind of steer the expectations and thinking about how this system works. I was judging it before I shot it and Ed was wise enough to see this…………
…………………….
I have been working with mine all morning and I have come to a completely different line of thinking now. I am going the write this up as a list of individual thoughts or statements to see if it flows better. I had just previously typed for an hour and lost it some how and I did not like how it read anyway. This way I can cut and paste to get the order logical.
My antisieze was a bad idea, it is not a lube it is antisieze, however it did seem to provide some laping and polish. I have cleaned again and used white lithium grease until I can get some moly paste.
Taking the cam out was dumb as Ed provided us a disconnect lever that works perfectly. Duh..
Even when the mag position is slightly off the bolt is designed to correct it and this is fine, the pellet is not damaged in any way during the process, on the nose or tail and it only changes the way it feels a little bit as the bolt closes. This is a non issue and does not constitute ” my gun is not working “. It is working exactly as designed and it works just fine.
It might be a bit smoother if it did align perfectly every time but Ed was asked for a multi shot and those asking were idiots if they thought it would not change the feel of the bolt when this happened. It works !!! and it offers features/ options others do not have as far as I know.
I have pushed many pellets out of the barrel to substantiate the above statement. Shooting two cards later today will do so better, one auto advanced and one finger rolled and report back.
We now have a very neat feature and choice with the disconnect in that we can still load as we go and it is just as easy or easier to do so, due to the ergonomics of inserting the pellet in the back of the mag while holding the gun in any position and we can still enjoy the old smooth bolt action when disconnected, no other gun I am aware of offers this !!! if you don’t like this you haven’t shot your gun enough yet, get off the computer and go shoot the hell out of it.
There was always a under realized benefit of break barrel guns in then you did not let go of the pellet until it was secure in the barrel, we got that back even if we did not know we did not have it in the first place.
This gun is working and if there is any issue, at least in my case, it was perception based, and the accuracy is not compromised.
As to Ed saying, ” Just shoot the gun ” ,…………. I actually have a couple of Russian friends and you have to understand they use some words differently than us and it affects the actual meaning. Ed said ” shoot the gun ” and I am pretty sure he was, in American speak, saying ” If you will just stop talking go shoot it you will see that it works very well, you will realize the benefits and still hit where you aim.” !!! In fact I will take this a step further and say he might have even been saying ” I have shot them a lot in development and you will come to like the new mag design as it works, sizes pellets, provides options as how to process pellets to the chamber and has no disadvantages “. If he did not think it was great he would not be thinking along the line of doing away with the old R3 design so therefore he is quite happy with this design. My trust in his judgment helped me see the light and understand what the gun is offering and doing. I shot for hours yesterday, slept on it last night and now realized he is right, there is nothing to not like here. I still want a 2.5 but now it is more to collect it. For what it is worth I am working towards possessing one of every model R2.5. R3 and R3M, Leyla
I will say I would like a glassy smooth bolt feel from beginning to end like the R3 but that is not possible with what has to happen when using an auto advance mechanism, nobody else’s is either. Ed has given us and his guns both the option to have it both ways. Smooth as the old and auto advance if you desire. This was an obvious intention or there would be no disconnect. If it was solely for not double loading we could of just pulled the mag. and I would of expected that in a design that is known for simplicity.
Show me to problems it is causing with loading or accuracy or you are full of hot air and wasting words. I am headed to the range, for some more 30 yard testing and breakin due to cold and convenience of it. 100 will be the deal but not for me today. i’ll leave it to you warm weather guys.
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I apologize for the redundant question then. Thank you Wingman.
Looking at Wingmans original review and then the review MachineGun originally did on the R3M’s, I noticed that the indexing detent on the magazine is in different spots. Wingmans is a 22 I believe with the detents on the outer edge of the magazine and MG’s is 25 with the detents on the inside edge of the Magazine. Is this a difference due to the different calibers or was this changed on all later R3M models? Can this also have an effect on how the magazine cycles? Just curious.
If you read Ed’s reply to my R3 V/S R3M review he answers that question, it was changed to make the cycling even smoother..
Ed,
Looking at Wingmans original review and then the review MachineGun originally did on the R3M’s, I noticed that the indexing detent on the magazine is in different spots. Wingmans is a 22 I believe with the detents on the outer edge of the magazine and MG’s is 25 with the detents on the inside edge of the Magazine. Is this a difference due to the different calibers or was this changed on all later R3M models? Can this also have an effect on how the magazine cycles? Just curious.
Hi MG, ED,
if it’s the 150$ stock that is blocking the “happy end” of this sad story then I will take it.
It just happens that I wanted to try out a black tactical stock and this could be a good opportunity to do this.
I can send the money to one of you or to Tony and he can send the stock back to ED on the first occasion he needs to send something back to him (I’m located in europe). Ed then can send it to his retailer that is next to me with his first shipment. (Anyway I don’t have time to work the stock before spring, so no hurry)
Hope this could be a suitable final and definitive solution to the problem.
Again ATB and Merry Christmas to everybody 😀
Yeah but drilling the stock for a bi-pod was a bad move before you were certain you would keep it.
I thought of installing a rail for my Atlas on my .30 but decided to wait knowing it would be a issue if I wanted to return it.
Just saying.
Edguns are particular items as we all know.
Very often you order/buy them on paper without having seen the product before, actually the product doesn’t exist at that moment and very often also the specs vary from order to delivery.
This to say that MG didn’t have a chance to try the new MS edgun before ordering/buying it because nobody had one at that time but probably if he would have had the possibility to test it first he wouldn’t have taken it because he doesn’t like the roughness or stiffness when cycling it.
A completely different story is the not properly indexing problem. This actually would be seen as a real problem and fault in pretty much all the airguns on the market today except if you say from the beginning “listen guys this is a different way of cycling, a two stage cycling, half cycling when you put the bolt back, second half when you put it forward, it is stiff and rough and it can happen that it doesn’t cycle properly but this is the way it is (I mean this accordingly of what I have read on the different posts).
In these circumstances, the unaware customer, could certainly not be happy and ask for a refund and the manufacturer can’t argue saying that the gun is used because he himself told the customer to shoot 2 or 3 tins of pellets out of it before complaining and this to see if the problem persists also afterwards.
The customer has drilled a hole in the stock to fix a bipod? Come on this is nothing, this is part of the customer relations budget.
You like your gun so much that you ordered a second one but it seems that MG loved his Edgun so much that he ordered other four.
In my opinion a person that owns 5 Edguns can’t be considered as being an “Edgun hater” and if he complains this time about a fault probably there is one, maybe it’s only his gun but anyway the problem needs to be sort out.
I consider MG being wrong only in his attitude, name calling people is never right and won’t help to solve his problem.
This was my last word on the subject.
ATB to everybody and enjoy christmas with your families 😀
I have a right to be ticked off and if the tone of my messages is a tad off, that’s because you have a bunch of ass kissers on here who have short memories. Look at the crap I have to go through. It could be you!
Merry Christmas!
Well said Pippo, I agree completely. Lets let this derailed thread die Here.
Hi Ride,
Edguns are particular items as we all know.
Very often you order/buy them on paper without having seen the product before, actually the product doesn’t exist at that moment and very often also the specs vary from order to delivery.
This to say that MG didn’t have a chance to try the new MS edgun before ordering/buying it because nobody had one at that time but probably if he would have had the possibility to test it first he wouldn’t have taken it because he doesn’t like the roughness or stiffness when cycling it.
A completely different story is the not properly indexing problem. This actually would be seen as a real problem and fault in pretty much all the airguns on the market today except if you say from the beginning “listen guys this is a different way of cycling, a two stage cycling, half cycling when you put the bolt back, second half when you put it forward, it is stiff and rough and it can happen that it doesn’t cycle properly but this is the way it is (I mean this accordingly of what I have read on the different posts).
In these circumstances, the unaware customer, could certainly not be happy and ask for a refund and the manufacturer can’t argue saying that the gun is used because he himself told the customer to shoot 2 or 3 tins of pellets out of it before complaining and this to see if the problem persists also afterwards.
The customer has drilled a hole in the stock to fix a bipod? Come on this is nothing, this is part of the customer relations budget.
You like your gun so much that you ordered a second one but it seems that MG loved his Edgun so much that he ordered other four.
In my opinion a person that owns 5 Edguns can’t be considered as being an “Edgun hater” and if he complains this time about a fault probably there is one, maybe it’s only his gun but anyway the problem needs to be sort out.
I consider MG being wrong only in his attitude, name calling people is never right and won’t help to solve his problem.
This was my last word on the subject.
ATB to everybody and enjoy christmas with your families 😀
sigh…
My maint. man recently bought a Denali and the engine rattled with lifter noise, he hated it cause his buddies teased him about it being a jingle valve they they realized it got under his skin. GM said it was normal and and would not fix it, and the dealer ended up buying it back with a small adjustment for usage. You have been offered that it sounds like, which is amazing. Shoot you said you were going to keep shooting it last weekend after all of your name calling vulgar ti-raids and claiming you were sending it back. You used it… it is used. They work like they work and that is this design. You bought it, you used it, you decided you don’t like it, so just man up and sell the stupid thing and bring this to an end. That is unless you whole mission is to bash and no one is listening anyway. Do you really think you can shout peoples opinions down on a forum with your name calling. Get real, it is a gun your not happy with, WalMart won’t even take a bb gun back as a return, you have lots of nice guns, you have to know that. While you are not polite I can tell you are not stupid either. Just sell it back or sell it elsewhere but for gods sake get rid of it and move on.
I would not even bother with an opinion if not for I started this thread to be constructive and all your name calling and childish crap have once again derailed it. I cowl down to no one, but will ignore your responses.
Putz…
Get a life! OK, move on if you don’t like what I’m saying. Mr. Ed is producing FrankEdsteins and you, as an ignorant American are buying into his BS. He has a responsibility to sell a product that works. I am not stupid enough to keep something that doesn’t work because unlike you, I won’t settle for something that is just ok and accept it. I expect it to function properly. I paid for it to function properly. I am not dealing with Walmart nor are we dealing with automobiles. We are dealing with a thieving, scamming, unethical manufacturer that many of you seem to think is the second coming of Jesus Christ. Get a life and wake up.
I liked mine so much I ordered another.
My maint. man recently bought a Denali and the engine rattled with lifter noise, he hated it cause his buddies teased him about it being a jingle valve they they realized it got under his skin. GM said it was normal and and would not fix it, and the dealer ended up buying it back with a small adjustment for usage. You have been offered that it sounds like, which is amazing. Shoot you said you were going to keep shooting it last weekend after all of your name calling vulgar ti-raids and claiming you were sending it back. You used it… it is used. They work like they work and that is this design. You bought it, you used it, you decided you don’t like it, so just man up and sell the stupid thing and bring this to an end. That is unless you whole mission is to bash and no one is listening anyway. Do you really think you can shout peoples opinions down on a forum with your name calling. Get real, it is a gun your not happy with, WalMart won’t even take a bb gun back as a return, you have lots of nice guns, you have to know that. While you are not polite I can tell you are not stupid either. Just sell it back or sell it elsewhere but for gods sake get rid of it and move on.
I would not even bother with an opinion if not for I started this thread to be constructive and all your name calling and childish crap have once again derailed it. I cowl down to no one, but will ignore your responses.
As Tony told you, no problem with refund, the stock cost 150 euro (the price it cost me) so you can return the gun and keep the stock which I don’t need (as it is destroyed). I will supply Tony new one to replace. To my oppinion it is quite fair, isn’t it, taking into consideration that I didn’t sell guns by parts but as the whole, thus if you destroy one part of the gun, it means you destroyed it as a whole and I shouldn’t even talk about any refunds. So estimate my good attitude to you :). Saying frankly I don’t want you to keep my gun so much that I am ready to make a step forward to you which I wouldn’t do in the usual circumstance.
Mr. Ed….
You’re an idiot! Plain and simple.
If I drilled the car, tore off the doors, took a can opener to the roof and brought it back to the manufacturer because the engine was no good – the respectable, responsible and ethical manufacturer would replace the engine immediately under warranty. So, go and spew your vile and BS elsewhere as it doesn’t hold water here.
You’re an evil thief who is selling FrankEdstein guns to the unsuspecting public.
Buy a new car, drill it to install something you are aware the car is not able to work good without, then make a conclusion the car is not what you”ve expected to be and go back to the seller, giving drilled car back, requiring for new one. I wonder what seller will tell you 🙂
As Tony told you, no problem with refund, the stock cost 150 euro (the price it cost me) so you can return the gun and keep the stock which I don’t need (as it is destroyed). I will supply Tony new one to replace. To my oppinion it is quite fair, isn’t it, taking into consideration that I didn’t sell guns by parts but as the whole, thus if you destroy one part of the gun, it means you destroyed it as a whole and I shouldn’t even talk about any refunds. So estimate my good attitude to you :). Saying frankly I don’t want you to keep my gun so much that I am ready to make a step forward to you which I wouldn’t do in the usual circumstance.
I am 99.9 % sure his gun is normal as the others so I don’t see that other gun will improve the situation. As I told before, the point is not in the gun, that is in the head, I have no possibility to replace it.
I truly think some of you guys have shit for brains (not you dman) and just plain love to kiss Ed’s ass. Yeah, he said he would refund if the gun is as new. Now, how many of you have a new gun 10 minutes after you get it? The answer is not one of you. We all shoot them and many of us mount rails for bipods. Therefore, that’s his out. He doesn’t want to refund and those of you who think he does are morons.
I mounted a bipod…
He would then say, the gun is not new and I cannot refund. For those of you who doubt this, I have a barrage of emails between myself and Tony. I am working the matter out with Tony and is private; it looks like Tony will work this out with me but there are complications.
And to you Ed, you’re a bullshitter. You like to hear yourself talk. I don’t gives a rats ass who you are. The gun sucks. The gun was a bastard model, a FrankEDstein. It’s an R3 gun upgraded to a multi shot, with the R3M stock. This is not what I expected not to mention that the guns mechanism is flawed.
I’m tired of hearing your BS.
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No prob 😀