Just a couple photos. Graphic.
Went out to a place I usually reserve for winter shooting. Took my .25 wst cricket and Leica rangefinder. The young pigeons were not too bright. They wanted to land on some spilt grain about 80 yards from my hide. My pickup in the shade of a barn. After I shot one they continued to return. Usually they shy from the dead birds but these seemed drawn to them. Gotta love young birds. I shot 14 straight birds befor a miss. Ranged from 78 – 92 yards. Slight r- l breeze. Figure the holdover hold 2-3 moa off and bam. The 25 cricket at 950 fps just slams them. Even got one double. Also shot 10 or so more but were either on top of barns or in corrals. Thought I’d share a couple photos.
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I think those red shorts are on a little too tight, might want to get a new pair. Pigeons are sometimes red sometimes white and some of them even look like Oreos. You need to get out more. I really hope that post was tongue and cheek, I would hate to think you didn’t know Rock pigeons were sometimes red
Keyser…I hate to be a dark cloud, but one of those birds is a very rare pigeon, the fourth one from the left, in the front row, the odd colored one, previously thought to be extinct, but anecdotal reports in the past 20 years indicate some very small populations may still exist!!!
The American Passenger Pigeon: Ectopistes_migratorius_ULaval It’s a Federally protected species with a $100,000 fine if apprehended harming, or trapping, one.
Look familiar???
Way to go numbnutts!!! I believe that is a crime on the level of Treason!!! If I were you, I’d be checking last minute air fares to Brazil, or some other country with no extradition treaty with the U.S.
Is there no red-blooded American Patriot on this forum who will step forward and report this scuff-law???
Better stock up on the KY Jelly, my boy, if apprehended, you’re gonna find Love in the strangest places…
Gravely concerned for your rectal well-being….
Kindly ‘Ol Uncle Hoot:
PS: OMG! Check row five, up from the bottom, third bird from left…. :angrymob:
I think logic left the building a while ago. 😉 What you are saying makes perfect sense. The correct solution of course is to have several PCPs. A .177 or .20 and a .25. :4:
If you’re shooting outdoors, I can see the use of a 30-50 FPE airgun for a clean dispatch but if it’s inside a barn where a ricochet is remotely possible. Wouldn’t a 12-20 FPE lower caliber .177 option be the logical choice? Pass through is of certainty with most pellets in the 30-50 FPE range. The .177 will likely pass thru at shorter distance but should do less damage to any structure, hit or miss. Am I missing something here or is logic out of the question?
Miss a pigeon shot in the head and hit a 30 thousand dollar heifer off a ricochet is not my idea of a good afternoon. If you don’t have to why choose a head shot? This is the only shooting sport where hunters state they look for head shots. The vitals of a pigeon are very small in relation to the rest of his body. I will continue to shoot 1000s of pigeons with 30 and 50 foot pound guns.
Great points and example. I completely forgot about you folks with the 12 FPE limit that shoot a lot of .177s around the farms. 50 yards/meters max seems reasonable at 12 FPE MV.
Hi guys
Being a Brit living in UK for years my earlier experiences were with a AA .177 under 12 FPE as no FAC then. Using a good front rest, laser range finder I shot lots of rabbits between 50 to 80 yards. All head shot or tried to be. Taken from the side of the head behind the eye or back , tried to leave the front alone. Most 90% killed outright. I am not a good shot. The energy needed to kill a rabbit is I believe 1 .5 FPE. I found body shots caused more lost bunnies and not always instant kills. Therefore focused on the head. Later years with a UK FAC on my shoots/permissions using a .22 hollow point rim fire round anywhere in the front end normally a dead ‘un. A Theoben rapid in FAC .22 appx 30 ft lbs back to head shots, cos quite a few runners. No meat damage with the air guns . Gave most of the bunnies away, other than personal eaters, to a pal who flew Hawks , Owls etc at shows. He liked the bunnies air rifle shot cos the birds could cope, recognise a single pellet . Unlike shotgun rabbits.
My Pigeon career has depended on shoots at the time. Years ago living in Sussex I founded the Surrey and Sussex Pigeon Control Society. We did some council work , shooting with permission, in the local high street feral pigeons for example. Good fun. Once again low power .177 or .22 both under 12 FPE . Shooting on council property flats, shops etc important little if any secondary damage. Broken roof tiles etc.To be fair mainly under 40 yards. No issues found , same story in old Listed Buildings where the Ferals had caused so much damage , droppings ,blocked gutters etc The true Wood pigeon , Columbia palumbis if I recall is a different kettle of fish. Much more wary etc etc and they can roost in trees, some of the Ferals cannot do that. In short different skill set needed. I applaud skill of pigeon shooting at such a range, as someone said head shots very difficult due to their poor vision , hence constant head turning and feeding of course. My aim points for pigeons , wing root for side shots , head if possible , in the back centre mass , depending on angle. I always avoided frontal chest shots , that big breast bone angled is strong. Long range I feel the bigger pellet has more target impact, knock down potential. Shorter ranges , say 45 yards and under .177 and upwards not a lot in it. Discussions of the whether .177, .20, .22 have been raging for ages. Personal preference and what one is confident with are probably more important.
I feel I have droned on too long but since a lad shooting has been in my blood.
The manure smell is actually stronger in here than the farm. You are recommending me to read more and shoot less? Now that’s rich. It’s always the same with you guys on the BBS; (shotgun, rifle, pistol, AR or airguns) you know the guys with thousands of posts who write links to charts and pontificate about minutiae and use the BBS format to prove their worth. One would be wise to read posts with a cautious eye from a guy who has thousands of posts, insults strangers and provides links to charts in order to prove his superiority.
😀 You may be sniffing the manure a bit too much out in the barn. I shot pigeons out of a barn with a Red Ryder some 45 years ago at 3 FPE and never dreamed that someone would claim that 19 FPE is not enough for humane killing. Wind effect is a function of BC and velocity and penetration may actually be higher on smaller caliber projectiles – just ask the airgun hog hunters. Maybe a bit of ballistics study is really necessary. A .177 or .20 is actually a little less damaging to some buildings and some equipment. Nice try though.
Sounds good that I don’t have to believe you. As a layman, I spend my time shooting pigeons at dairy farms not reading charts. I would not choose a .177 to shoot pigeons. The take down power of the .25 vs the .22 in a gun shooting 50 foot pound is profound. I shot 150 pigeons yesterday with a .22 and .25, and there are times when I have been glad I had both guns. The .25 shooting the kings in my Cricket will punch holes through the bird and through the metal roof of the barn. The .22 shooting 30 FPE will not do the same. Shooting Pigeons past 80 yards is a gamble with the .22 so the .25 is a better choice. High wind, mirage and uneven terrain can make head shots impossible Sorry you won’t find that information on a chart. When a pigeon hunter is taking birds for the farmer it is his duty to cleanly dispatch as many birds as he can. The .177 has a hard time killing birds when it has to penetrate through the flight feathers. Sometimes the .22 is just right sometimes the .25 is perfect. The overlap you are seeing is from analysis paralysis, that’s the benefit of being a layman…
Here are some of the airgun charts I use…
Actually there is a lot of caliber overlap. Here is the Crosman airgun pellet/caliber guide which is pretty conservative and has been tested, updated, and around a long time. You don’t have to believe us laymen. If interested I can post the age old guidelines from Dr. Beeman of the original Beeman airguns but they are similar to these. It takes little energy to kill most pests and shot placement is more important than caliber. There are guidelines for head shot vs. vitals as well but they are in line with these. I have killed many raccoons with a .177 and 19 FPE ME but I prefer to stick with a minimum of 30 FPE now and a .22 is more than adequate.
http://www.crosman.com/pdf/CrosmanAirgunPelletCapabilitiesChart20120713.pdf
That’s a damn good price to convert a .20. I really don’t think there is that much overlap between a .22 and .25. The power of the .25 is staggering and it has noticeably more take-down power vs the .22. I have found wild pigeons to be hard to kill with calibers smaller than the .22
$425 installed tuned to the max to your preferred FPE. 900 to 915fps is the preferred speed. Guaranteed accuracy or your money back. you will be getting a shooter. the barrels will be tested for accuracy to insure its a shooter before the conversion. you will be getting: 19″ barrel, .20 probe, two 14 shot mags, full tune. barrel threaded to use your standard stock shroud.
How much to convert to .20 Ernest ?
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Well I apologize. I didn’t mean to start a war. Ha. I ended up buying mooseknuckles used .22 cricket. I twisted his arm a little and got a pretty good deal I think. I’ll try tuning it down a bit and try shooting the lighter pellets. If that doesn’t work out that’s ok as I like the caliber anyway. I’ll keep my eyes open for a used .177. If his had been a used .177 I would have bought it as I think like coda it’s the logical choice for a two gun set up. But then who only wants two airguns. Thanks again for the input.