Marauder and Condor Comparisions
Let me state that I am NOT an expert but rather an airgun enthusiast that has learned a lot over the last year or so and can only speak as such.
I have owned and used a Marauder .177 for the past year which is a great rifle compared to the other .177’s I have used and tested. I decided to add a .22 to my collection and purchased one from Tony at Talon Tunes having him tune it for me before taking delivery.
After shooting the Condor at various ranges ( 32 and 59 yards), I could not believe how much better with tighter groupings I was getting with the Condor and it got me to thinking. I am comparing a .177 to a .22 shooting 15.9 grain JSB’s as opposed to 10.5 grain Crossman’s and how much this alone effects the results is better left to someone more knowledgeable than myself. When I have asked “experts” to compare the comparable Marauder and Condor .22’s, I get ” Apples to Oranges” which does not really help much.
I was wondering as I am very interested if anyone on the forum has compared and tested a .22 Marauder with the .22 Condor and what might their observations have been.
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Good advise Jerry.
Another thing you can do to eliminate the cant variable for testing is to level your target. When I mount a scope I usually take a white target board and use a carpenter’s level to draw a pure verticle and pure horizontal line on the target. Then, using a level that mounts to the gun and also sighting on the reference lines, I can make sure the gun and scope are in alignment.
If I’m working on seeing how accurate the gun is, drawing those lines on the target help eliminate my error.
Good writeup and article. I argued with a guy for weeks until he came over and we put one of my Vortex scope levels on his gun. I think wind and cant are the two big issues with poor accuracy and precision. Without a good frame of reference like the grid on a level target cant error is very real.
My gun vise is heaven for precision…
Flags and a scope level are invaluable for shooting precise groups too.
All of my PCP’s experience this POI shift and the symptoms are as described by several folks. Nice groupings on target but the next day they are 3/4 – 1 inch left of center – right of center but wherever the gun will group in this spot until I adjust. The end result is that every day I make it a practice of taking a few test shots then making adjustments and I am fine.
Since I get this on both my Marauder ( I have had several) as well as my Condor so I do not think it is a gun issue but rather an airgun phenomenon. While i do not have an exact reason for this I just accept it as part of the process with PCP airguns.
The only thing that makes sense to me is the affect of wind even slight breezes is greater than one might expect. I have copied some info and pasted the full article about POI change at the bottom.
Sidewind
A sidewind will blow your pellet in the direction the wind is blowing, and also either up of down, depending on the wind direction and the direction of spin imparted by your barrel. This is caused by a phenomenon known as precession. A gyroscope (your spinning pellet) that’s pushed in a certain direction will move at 90 degrees to the force. The movement will always be in the direction of spin. If the gyro is spinning in a righthand direction and you push it to the right, it doesn’t go right…it goes down. Push to the left and the same gyro doesn’t go left. It goes up. The gyroscope is touching the earth at its point where a lot of friction holds it fast. A pellet flying through the air has no friction holding it in place, so it tends to go with the flow. Therefore, the sideways movement is usually larger than the upward or downward movement
All of my PCP guns change POI with big temp/humidity changes slightly (but I don’t adjust the scope back and forth). The change is always from LL to UR (base on barrel twist I guess) I have a fellow shooter with a new Daystate Air Ranger 80 with an LW barrel and his changes more than any of mine and another guy with a regular Matador that has the same issue. Welcome to PCPs. For hunting we each check the POI one shot each time but it can change from morning to afternoon. I thought maybe a regulated or eValve gun would do better but that is not entirely the issue. Nor are the bushings the issue. I have found a slight change from my gun in the shade to sitting in the sun on the Condor with the 24″ .22 barrel to temp has some effect but so does velocity changes and some pellets seem more senstive to it (less positively stabilizing). My high powered varmint rifles (243 and 22-250) do it as well but to a lessor degree than these PCPs. The only thing I can say is be wary when someone tells you their brand of PCP gun has no POI change despite their claims.
When I check my Marauder .25 with the Condor or Stubby .25 barrels you can tell the choke is more pronounced in the LW barrels than the Green Mountain barrel which would explain the increased leading I see.
I don’t have a shifting zero on my condor. I do have an aftermarket .25 barrel though.
Well then there is something wrong with your gun, or most likely the bore needs to be cleaned. That is not what the rest of us have to do every time we shoot. LW barrels need to be cleaned frequently. The S400/500 owners will tell you the same thing as the Matador/Edgun owners have found out with their LW barrels. Sure if you want to keep your gun and bore dirty, you are going to have to keep re-zeroing your scope.
Try cleaning the hek out of your barrel and then see what happens with the 1st shot and the next day shooting “cold”. Also keep those breach o-rings lubed with divers silicone as well. It helps too.
Lastly, those people that shoot 14.x or light pellets out of their .22 Condors, have you tried what the Condor is supposed to be shooting like 28.4gr EunJin and 21gr Kodiaks (or 18.1gr JSB’s for the lightest pellet)? I have taken hundreds of critters with the 1st “cold shot” with both my .22 & .25 Condors. I never had to take a couple of shots before I aimed at a critter’s head, especially at 3am when I am waiting for a raccoon to come in.. That stuff is for Springers.
It will shoot different if you change the air tanks too. it would be a good idea if you mark a position on the tank and gun with an earsable marker to expermint with it, the bishings that the tank fits can turn a little and cause that too. These things are unnoticable but I found that they are key points to presistance, I removed the pistol Grip and tightened mine up have to admit it does better. 😀
Sounds like clipping on the shroud or possibly a bad crown.
Happy yours works, I have cleaned my barrel removed the stock bushings and tried replacing them. Same thing. once zeroed I am good for the day. tomorrow group at 35 yards may be one inch high and left may be one inch low and right. All pellets will shoot tight but not to same point of aim. Maybe I am missing something but I do not understand it. 😉
One or 2 people said they have to adjust the scope every time they want to shoot their Condor accurately?
Well then there is something wrong with your gun, or most likely the bore needs to be cleaned. That is not what the rest of us have to do every time we shoot. LW barrels need to be cleaned frequently. The S400/500 owners will tell you the same thing as the Matador/Edgun owners have found out with their LW barrels. Sure if you want to keep your gun and bore dirty, you are going to have to keep re-zeroing your scope.
Try cleaning the hek out of your barrel and then see what happens with the 1st shot and the next day shooting “cold”. Also keep those breach o-rings lubed with divers silicone as well. It helps too.
Lastly, those people that shoot 14.x or light pellets out of their .22 Condors, have you tried what the Condor is supposed to be shooting like 28.4gr EunJin and 21gr Kodiaks (or 18.1gr JSB’s for the lightest pellet)? I have taken hundreds of critters with the 1st “cold shot” with both my .22 & .25 Condors. I never had to take a couple of shots before I aimed at a critter’s head, especially at 3am when I am waiting for a raccoon to come in.. That stuff is for Springers.
For pwer and speed, you can’t beet the Condor if it’s right.
I just filled mine to 2900 something I don’t usually do, and used the 14.66 grain match pellets and turned it plum off on the power wheel, and still couldn’t get it below 1200 on my First few shots. And at 25 yards it shot hole in a hole, but spaced ot it went too fast to keep stable.
I run my condor on about 2000 to 2200 psi and use the 31 grain and the 43 grain pellets.
The gun shoots to the specks as far as Hitting the 1 1/2″ groups at 45 yards.
I always used the 14.66 grains in my Discovery 22 rifle, it shoots awsom with them. 😀
You are right higher weight pellets and extreme air gun ranges belong to the condor. I tuned the heck out of my marauder and there are only a couple shots that break 900fps. 1000 fps is a pipe dream with marauder so far.
here is my condor at , and just under 1000 fps with 32 eujine’s , 50yards at 75 to 80 foot pounds.this is where the Condor shines, compared to the Marauder. the maurader cant shoot the 32 grain at this level can it.
with a couple of Kodiak groups,
Interesting as I had this problem real bad with my original Marauder before replacement. I would adjust the aim and it would shoot great but the next time it required scope adjustments. I was able to send it in under warranty for a bolt locking issue and I was sent a new gun.
I noticed right off that the new Marauder did not have the same issue with having to constatly re adjusting from day to day. The two differences I noticed with the new gun was that the barrel opening was 16th of a inch wider than the original and that the barrel truly floated as opposed to the old one that toched the barrel mounting rings.
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Like Jerry said.
Cant when shooting the Condor is unfortunately easy to induce, and the most common cause of POI changes. It is often perceived as an issue with the gun.
I actually experimented and removed the tri-rail from my Condors and shot again. As I had expected my groups tightened up. The higher your scope sits, the easier it is to have cant. The lower the scope to the bore, the less possibility of cant. But Condors need to have the scope higher because the cheek position/weld on their tanks is very low and strains your neck if you are older like I am.. So damn if you do, damn if you don’t.